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Old 08-29-2019, 03:25 AM   #21
Ron Evans
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Dave I do understand how consolidate was used in the past for film and tape based systems, with approved takes by director, etc that needed to be action-ed by different people to complete a project and archived. Media was physically large and needed to be copied at some expense and time. Life has changed especially for lots of people on this and other forums that do most or all the work on the project themselves, on one PC and with pressure to do it with one piece of software. Collaboration these days maybe with things like Frame.io

As I understand the OP question it was purely to reduce the media that was being saved after editing. He did not want to save anything other than the pieces of the clips he had used in his edit. Was this to save space or money. He did not mention that. But with two backup copies. No mention of passing on a consolidated project to a colorist etc. I am not sure any of the present NLE's will do what he wants with LongGOP files. So I think it results in using the whole source clip or the timeline edit. Exporting a clean file ( no filters etc, mute title tracks and remove filters ) as well as the finished project would give him two copies that he seems to want as well as the ability to edit again within the constraints of the edited clips he had made much the same as a single file of consolidated clips. Resolve can split them back into clips for him if he wants in the future.

I stand by my comments that memory is cheap especially when the task is 150GB.

I was trying to address what I felt was his question. Just save the pieces of the clips he used and delete everything else. I presented my view that keeping everything for a few years until I am sure I do not need it is an option with the present cost of storage.
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:47 AM   #22
ulyssesvideo
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Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Dave I do understand how consolidate was used in the past for film and tape based systems, with approved takes by director, etc that needed to be action-ed by different people to complete a project and archived. Media was physically large and needed to be copied at some expense and time. Life has changed especially for lots of people on this and other forums that do most or all the work on the project themselves, on one PC and with pressure to do it with one piece of software. Collaboration these days maybe with things like Frame.io

As I understand the OP question it was purely to reduce the media that was being saved after editing. He did not want to save anything other than the pieces of the clips he had used in his edit. Was this to save space or money. He did not mention that. But with two backup copies. No mention of passing on a consolidated project to a colorist etc. I am not sure any of the present NLE's will do what he wants with LongGOP files. So I think it results in using the whole source clip or the timeline edit. Exporting a clean file ( no filters etc, mute title tracks and remove filters ) as well as the finished project would give him two copies that he seems to want as well as the ability to edit again within the constraints of the edited clips he had made much the same as a single file of consolidated clips. Resolve can split them back into clips for him if he wants in the future.

I stand by my comments that memory is cheap especially when the task is 150GB.

I was trying to address what I felt was his question. Just save the pieces of the clips he used and delete everything else. I presented my view that keeping everything for a few years until I am sure I do not need it is an option with the present cost of storage.
well said!

the only time I would use the consolidate function is if I had to hand over a folder with the files for colour grading to someone else. in this case... yes.. you dont need excess files, just what is needed.

Last edited by ulyssesvideo; 08-29-2019 at 03:56 AM.
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Dave I do understand how consolidate was used in the past for film and tape based systems, with approved takes by director, etc that needed to be action-ed by different people to complete a project and archived. Media was physically large and needed to be copied at some expense and time. Life has changed especially for lots of people on this and other forums that do most or all the work on the project themselves, on one PC and with pressure to do it with one piece of software. Collaboration these days maybe with things like Frame.io

As I understand the OP question it was purely to reduce the media that was being saved after editing. He did not want to save anything other than the pieces of the clips he had used in his edit. Was this to save space or money. He did not mention that. But with two backup copies. No mention of passing on a consolidated project to a colorist etc. I am not sure any of the present NLE's will do what he wants with LongGOP files. So I think it results in using the whole source clip or the timeline edit. Exporting a clean file ( no filters etc, mute title tracks and remove filters ) as well as the finished project would give him two copies that he seems to want as well as the ability to edit again within the constraints of the edited clips he had made much the same as a single file of consolidated clips. Resolve can split them back into clips for him if he wants in the future.

I stand by my comments that memory is cheap especially when the task is 150GB.

I was trying to address what I felt was his question. Just save the pieces of the clips he used and delete everything else. I presented my view that keeping everything for a few years until I am sure I do not need it is an option with the present cost of storage.

Actually Ron, I wasnít saying that you didnít understand the function.

For you and Dave, recording long single takes as part of synced multi cam. Youíd be in great difficulties if you found you didnít have cover somewhere. So, with little to no over shooting in that instance, consolidation will serve no purpose.

Although that said. Your examples for consolidation isnít what itís main purpose is for with TV, film, drama and isnít something of the past. When shooting many slates with many takes, there are a lot of dead or unusable takes, these are the first to go. That isnít anything to do with storage and saving, itís to do with management of media and to lessen the confusion with unusable media.

Like I said, if shooting a synced multi cam piece, each full take is very important and putting it basically, 5 cameras 5 takes isnít a nightmare in post and each camera take has many uses which may only become apparent further into the edit. Again, a process that isnít served what so ever by consolidation.

There are many reasons when shooting drama to get shut of many takes that definitely wonít work. Thereís also the point of building scenes and reels, which can be accomplished via consolidation of individual sequences or projects, to be then reintegrated within a master sequence/project for final lock. During that process you are talking about thousands of clips, which the process of consolidation can help to manage. Like I said, in its first instance, itís nothing to do with saving space or drives.

The point I was making about this thread was that people started talking about not using consolidation because it doesnít help their workflow and they couldnít see the sense to it, regardless of if Ediusí is broke or not. When a thread starts going side ways like that, the original point of the thread can become lost and people can start getting confused.

My point was to try and help keep the focus of the thread and not have it spin off into directions that ultimately have nothing to do with consolidation.
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If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

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Old 08-29-2019, 10:11 AM   #24
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A long debate... isn'it ?

I give a workaround solution... but it do not help in some cases.

The last documentary film I have done is 1H20'. It is the history of a company based on a very wide diversify documents (photos, videos, 16mm films....)

Phase 1 was to collecte these documents from many sources and organise it in a structured folder with many subfolders.

Phase 2 was to scenarize, writing text and editing (base was the folders of phase 1).

Finally the first project based on Phase 1 documents contains : 9.496 files in 600 folders and the volume used is 814Gb

After consolidation the "consolidated project" gives exactly the same result in a specific "consolidated folder" wich contains : 2247 files in 350 folders and the volume used is 430Gb.

Benefit : Speed of working...when opening the consolidation version.... it is much more faster. So to make a second language version... it was perfect.

Disadvantage : I can't guarantee that the videos where segmented correctly. I have done trim manualy in HQX because there were only a few.

Of course, the price of storage has nothing to do here... I have archived both versions

Just a opinion based on my experience in these type of realization.
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Sorry for my poor english, I am french native speaking

Main System: Azus Z87 Pro, 4770K@3.5Ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia GeForce GT 630, Windows 7 Pro 64, Samsung 840 pro, Edius 8.53.2808 WG and 9.40.4896 + NXexpress or HDspark, 2T separate video SSD.

Last edited by Haddock; 08-29-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:01 AM   #25
Liverpool TV
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Originally Posted by Haddock View Post
A long debate... isn'it ?

I give a workaround solution... but it do not help in some cases.

The last documentary film I have done is 1H20'. It is the history of a company based on a very wide diversify documents (photos, videos, 16mm films....)

Phase 1 was to collecte these documents from many sources and organise it in a structured folder with many subfolders.

Phase 2 was to scenarize, writing text and editing (base was the folders of phase 1).

Finally the first project based on Phase 1 documents contains : 9.496 files in 600 folders and the volume used is 814Gb

After consolidation the "consolidated project" gives exactly the same result in a specific "consolidated folder" wich contains : 2247 files in 350 folders and the volume used is 430Gb.

Benefit : Speed of working...when opening the consolidation version.... it is much more faster. So to make a second language version... it was perfect.

Disadvantage : I can't guarantee that the videos where segmented correctly. I have done trim manualy in HQX because there were only a few.

Of course, the price of storage has nothing to do here... I have archived both versions

Just a opinion based on my experience in these type of realization.
Sounds like a great use of consolidation.
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"There's only one thing more powerful than knowledge. The free sharing of it"

If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:31 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Liverpool TV View Post
Sounds like a great use of consolidation.
Thanks... But I'm a little obliged. I work on quite heavy projects with a large amount of documents that come from different horizons and that go into the BIN.
Once completed, many of these documents used in intermediate versions are not retained in the final version.
In this case, as explained above, the lightening of the project "via" the consolidation is positive to go on for the translations titles and voice over (GB - Ned - G) ... (this is a google translation from french)
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Sorry for my poor english, I am french native speaking

Main System: Azus Z87 Pro, 4770K@3.5Ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia GeForce GT 630, Windows 7 Pro 64, Samsung 840 pro, Edius 8.53.2808 WG and 9.40.4896 + NXexpress or HDspark, 2T separate video SSD.
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:19 PM   #27
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Lots of useful information and yes I do understand the full meaning Dave in my first sentence " approved takes " is what you referred to in "there are a lot of dead or unusable takes, these are the first to go ". Depending on what one does backup has totally different meaning. For multicam of shows one must keep pretty much everything, Haddock clearly explained his needs but we still do not know if the OP only issue was saving space from how big a source set was to start with. Was it a holiday video that got cut down or a paid project for a client.

I started from shooting film so even my holiday shoots now have almost no unusable shots. When film cost a lot of money for 4 mins you didn't waste much !! Back in 1970 4 min Super 8 cost about $5 and we could stay in a motel for $7.

If consolidate just keeps what has been used then it has little benefit over keeping the finished project export twice as I mentioned. Edius unlike Resolve does not have the ability to recover the individual clips from a high quality clean file by identifying edit points.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:13 PM   #28
Liverpool TV
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Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Lots of useful information and yes I do understand the full meaning Dave in my first sentence " approved takes " is what you referred to in "there are a lot of dead or unusable takes, these are the first to go ". Depending on what one does backup has totally different meaning. For multicam of shows one must keep pretty much everything, Haddock clearly explained his needs but we still do not know if the OP only issue was saving space from how big a source set was to start with. Was it a holiday video that got cut down or a paid project for a client.

I started from shooting film so even my holiday shoots now have almost no unusable shots. When film cost a lot of money for 4 mins you didn't waste much !! Back in 1970 4 min Super 8 cost about $5 and we could stay in a motel for $7.

If consolidate just keeps what has been used then it has little benefit over keeping the finished project export twice as I mentioned. Edius unlike Resolve does not have the ability to recover the individual clips from a high quality clean file by identifying edit points.
"Approved takes" isn't the same as what I was referring to. As for backing up, again, not what I was talking about. I'm not sure what the cost of media has to do with consolidation within your reference.

You keep mentioning backing up etc. If that's what consolidation's main use is for you, then fair enough.
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"There's only one thing more powerful than knowledge. The free sharing of it"

If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Lots of useful information and yes I do understand the full meaning Dave in my first sentence " approved takes " is what you referred to in "there are a lot of dead or unusable takes, these are the first to go ". Depending on what one does backup has totally different meaning. For multicam of shows one must keep pretty much everything, Haddock clearly explained his needs but we still do not know if the OP only issue was saving space from how big a source set was to start with. Was it a holiday video that got cut down or a paid project for a client.

I started from shooting film so even my holiday shoots now have almost no unusable shots. When film cost a lot of money for 4 mins you didn't waste much !! Back in 1970 4 min Super 8 cost about $5 and we could stay in a motel for $7.

If consolidate just keeps what has been used then it has little benefit over keeping the finished project export twice as I mentioned. Edius unlike Resolve does not have the ability to recover the individual clips from a high quality clean file by identifying edit points.
I don't use the consolidate function Ron.
the cost of media is so cheap these days.
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:37 PM   #30
Ron Evans
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"Approved takes" isn't the same as what I was referring to. As for backing up, again, not what I was talking about. I'm not sure what the cost of media has to do with consolidation within your reference.

You keep mentioning backing up etc. If that's what consolidation's main use is for you, then fair enough.
I am sorry that you feel that your way of describing things is the only way. I assure you I meant exactly what you refereed to. I also understand that consolidate is used for lots of reasons. Backing up what was done is just one of them. Also backup could include all the pieces that where not used too. Other software make a distinction between Archive a project and Consolidate that I am sure you are aware of too.

Cost of media is very important. Is it not important to you? When media is very expensive people take care not to use it unnecessarily. Hence my comment of Super 8 film. When it is almost free people just shoot everything leading to a very good reason to delete a lot not used. But it still depends on what was shot, for whom and how important it was. My approach to family and holiday video is that the final video is a fraction of what I shot. But I still keep all of it and have needed to go back many times when asked a question about what happened. Hence my response to the OP. With current media costs unless the camera was left running accidentally ( inside bag video, shot of feet walking etc, removed outside NLE ) I would keep everything. Old British saying I am sure you know ďpenny wise, pound foolish.Ē

I am sure you will respond as you like having the last word but I will call this my last post on this thread
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