Grass Valley Forums Facebook   Twitter   YouTube  

Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Converters > ProCoder

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-12-2007, 12:50 AM   #1
Martin_Gleeson
Senior Member
 
Martin_Gleeson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 227
Default Quality of SD DVD from HD Timeline

I have a couple of Canon XH A1's. I am very dissapointed with the quality of the SD DVD's I get at the end of the entire cycle. I believe that the resulting DVD's are of a much poorer quality than DVD's I produced from a couple of VX2100's.

For now, my main interest is getting good quality 16:9 SD DVD's. 99.999% of my business will be SD for the next year at least.

My current workflow is similar to many others' with these HDV cameras:

1. Capture as Canopus HQ from the camera with 1440x1080 @ 50i
2. Edit and output to PC3 as 720x576 @ 50i with 16:9 flag set. Settings are 9000-7000-2000 vbr 2 pass

Result is a noticable softer image than my old 4:3 projects from a VX2100. There are rainbox and color artifacts/bleeding on faces in some scenes. There are aliasing artifacts on certain objects such as a tiled roof, church pews, etc.
I don't think the resulting image is acceptable. I am sorely tempted to just sell the cameras (even though I can't really afford the loss) and go back to the VX2100's.

I did some research and came across this discussion (don't bother reading that long thread):

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=70792


I tried this method:

1. Export completed Edius timeline to Canopus HQ file @ 1440x1080i
2. Imported into Virtualdub for resizing (method Lanczos3/Interlaced) to 720 x 576 uncompressed AVI. The resulting file, when played from a HD or SD timeline in Edius to external monitor looks very, very good. Better than any of my old 4:3 SD projects from the VX2100's. There is no softness or evidence of any artifacts.
3. Encode to MPEG2 using PC3 using 9000-7000-2000 vbr 2 pass.
4. Burn to DVD.

I think the final DVD from this workflow is slightly softer than the first workflow above. The aliasing is gone; but the rainbox and color artifacts on faces in some scenes is still there.

I would conclude (I think wrongly) from that experiment, that PC3 is causing the problems when encoding to MP3. Any views?

As I said, all I'm really interested in for now is a good 16:9 SD DVD.

My first workflow, above seems correct - what I can't understand is how so many say that they get great SD DVD's from this and so many others have the same experience as me.

Other options I could try:

1. Capture HDV footage as SD footage to Edius (I think I'd let the camera do the downconverting). Edit and export to SD DVD.

2. Capture HDV footage to Edius as CanopusHQ and then change project settings to 16:9 SD before exporting to PC3 for SD DVD.

3. Try downconvert the finished project using After Effects 7. I actually started this. While playing, the downconverted footage looked good. But when I paused it, I could see jaggies everywhere. Also, I believe, even using a fairly powerful system like mine, this would still take many hours to downconvert.

4. Go back to the VX2100's, crying all the way.
__________________
Windows 10 Pro. Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Ultra Gaming mainboard, Intel i7-8700K processor, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Radeon R9 270 2GB DDR5 Graphics.
Samsung SSD Drives for system and mixture of SSD and 7200 SATA for video storage.

Edius 9.50. Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4k
Dublin, Ireland. PAL.
Martin_Gleeson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 08:39 PM   #2
plekkie
Senior Member
 
plekkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 258
Default

Just as a quick test, have you tried exporting with the generic MPEG exporter in Edius? Or with the print to DVD option in Edius?
plekkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 01:07 AM   #3
Imagine Video
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 467
Default The workflow I use at present

I'm also in the same boat Martin and too be honest the best way for me at the moment is:

Shoot HDV 1440 X 1080i Pal 16:9

CAPTURE THE SAME AS SHOOTING with OHCI or NXe in OHCI mode

EDIT IN THE SAME CONFIG with NXe switched to The EX 1 setting for relatime output and monitoring on HD panel.

Then I get to your stage - Render ALL out to 2 files (I spread larger projects onto 2 SD dvd's)

You need to render out to a solid avi as Pixel based effects like text and PIP will not work without a re-jig to do this method

Then with your HQ FILE / FILES - so just a big AVI in HQ 1440 x 1080i 50i

Open new project in edius and inport AVI THEN SWITCH THE PROJECT SETTINGS TO sd Storm setting and encode to sd dvd with the storm 2's hardware encoder - the quality is fantastic!! better than my pd170's or vx

and then author SD DVD as you always did.

I have a few jobs in the next few days will be done this way.

You could try all I said but use procoder or procoder express fopr the SD dvd mpeg 2 conversion just flip the project settings to sd dvd 16:9

I just love the quality of the Storm 2's Hardware Encoder.......and its realtime......

BUT you must render to a full avi first.

Cathryn!

PS I may have a Storm 2 with hardware encoder going spare;-) If you dont have one......
__________________
Asus P5K64WS, Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 Extreme CPU, Saphire HD 3850 512mb graphics, WDraptor160 OS, Highpoint Rocket raid 2310 4 x 500gig Seagate sata 2 se drives in raid 0, NXe and Edius 5.51 Imaginate 2.
Procoder 3.06 and various Prodad add-ons
Imagine Video is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 05:02 AM   #4
Khoi Pham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 2,071
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_Gleeson View Post
I have a couple of Canon XH A1's. I am very dissapointed with the quality of the SD DVD's I get at the end of the entire cycle. I believe that the resulting DVD's are of a much poorer quality than DVD's I produced from a couple of VX2100's.

For now, my main interest is getting good quality 16:9 SD DVD's. 99.999% of my business will be SD for the next year at least.

My current workflow is similar to many others' with these HDV cameras:

1. Capture as Canopus HQ from the camera with 1440x1080 @ 50i
2. Edit and output to PC3 as 720x576 @ 50i with 16:9 flag set. Settings are 9000-7000-2000 vbr 2 pass

Result is a noticable softer image than my old 4:3 projects from a VX2100. There are rainbox and color artifacts/bleeding on faces in some scenes. There are aliasing artifacts on certain objects such as a tiled roof, church pews, etc.
I don't think the resulting image is acceptable. I am sorely tempted to just sell the cameras (even though I can't really afford the loss) and go back to the VX2100's.

I did some research and came across this discussion (don't bother reading that long thread):

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=70792


I tried this method:

1. Export completed Edius timeline to Canopus HQ file @ 1440x1080i
2. Imported into Virtualdub for resizing (method Lanczos3/Interlaced) to 720 x 576 uncompressed AVI. The resulting file, when played from a HD or SD timeline in Edius to external monitor looks very, very good. Better than any of my old 4:3 SD projects from the VX2100's. There is no softness or evidence of any artifacts.
3. Encode to MPEG2 using PC3 using 9000-7000-2000 vbr 2 pass.
4. Burn to DVD.

I think the final DVD from this workflow is slightly softer than the first workflow above. The aliasing is gone; but the rainbox and color artifacts on faces in some scenes is still there.

I would conclude (I think wrongly) from that experiment, that PC3 is causing the problems when encoding to MP3. Any views?

As I said, all I'm really interested in for now is a good 16:9 SD DVD.

My first workflow, above seems correct - what I can't understand is how so many say that they get great SD DVD's from this and so many others have the same experience as me.

Other options I could try:

1. Capture HDV footage as SD footage to Edius (I think I'd let the camera do the downconverting). Edit and export to SD DVD.

2. Capture HDV footage to Edius as CanopusHQ and then change project settings to 16:9 SD before exporting to PC3 for SD DVD.

3. Try downconvert the finished project using After Effects 7. I actually started this. While playing, the downconverted footage looked good. But when I paused it, I could see jaggies everywhere. Also, I believe, even using a fairly powerful system like mine, this would still take many hours to downconvert.

4. Go back to the VX2100's, crying all the way.

Lanczos3 resize method is good for upscale, not downscale, it adds too much edge enhancement, edge enhancement will give you a halo effect around the edge, that is why it looks like it has less stair steps or flickering, if your final dvd to be watch on interlaced display, you should do like Barry suggested with circular blur filter when using ProCoder, or using Tsunami with my settings, if your final dvd is to be view on progressive display then I would just switch your HD timeline to SD timeline when using ProCoder before encoding to MPEG2, here is a good article talking about edge enhancement.
http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm
Khoi Pham is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
 
Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Converters > ProCoder
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HDV to SD DVD best methods and color space coversion Peterjames Editing with EDIUS 7 12-15-2007 07:10 PM
HD to first-quality SD DVD - finally! AJL14 Editing with EDIUS 3 10-20-2007 05:15 AM
HD timeline to SD DVD - pretty bad Martin_Gleeson Editing with EDIUS 35 10-12-2007 12:03 AM
HD timeline to SD DVD AJL14 Editing with EDIUS 2 09-29-2007 09:06 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:48 AM.


Copyright 2014 Belden Inc. All rights reserved.