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Old 02-06-2011, 11:03 PM   #1
Bozobyte
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Default Sync Issues w/Pinnacle Studio HD14, want to swith to Canopus?

Hello Grass People!
CAUTION.....WARNING!.... I AM A NEWBIE HERE......

I may become a grass convert from Pinnacle Studio 14 HD capture after all, from using Pinnacle's PCI-500 Capture device that came with the Studio movieboard 12.1, to buying the Canopus ADVC-110. The main problem is capturing from analog Camcorder using the RCA video OUT from JVC Camcorder camera to pci device Video IN, and the sound OUT from Camera to my Independent on-board Realtek HD Sound card. NOTHING BUT MAJOR OUT OF SYNC ISSUES WITH THE AUDIO NOT SYNCING WITH THE VIDEO!!!

First, it was my STUDIO MOVIEBOARD 12.1,then i UPGRADED TO THE Pinnacle Studio Ultimate HD 14, and yet, I've tried everything to get this sound synced properly, but after many wasted DVD's, hours of real time capture, and trying a myriad of ideas,suggestions,and troubleshooting, to no avail, just a lot more frustrated.
_______________________________________________
MY SPECS ~
P-35 Platinum MS-7345 Mobo
Windows XP Home Edition SP3
Intel Core 2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz (4 CPUs)
2.4 GHz, 3328 MB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT 512 Memory Size
Realtek HD Audio Output Sound
DirectX version: 9.0c
Monitor: Viewsonic VX2035wm Series
WD 500 GB HDD / WD 74GB RAPTOR HDD
Pioneer DVD -RW / DVR 111D
NERO 9
_________________________________________
I did a search for the Canopus ADVC-110 and noticed this tidbit..

."Compatible with leading editing and DVD authoring applications including Grass Valley EDIUS, Canopus Let's EDIT, Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere Pro, Vegas, iLife, Ulead MediaStudio Pro, and Windows Movie Maker."

No mention of Pinnacle Studio anywhere. Could I still use the CANOPUS 110 and be able to do any EDITING like adding background music,sound effects,or transitions in the Pinnacle Ultimate HD Studio 14???? OR start with Canopus (whatever model) trash my Studio HD 14, and use another comprobale editing program similar to the tools in Pinnacle?

I'm really tired of playing the Pinnacle Tech support e-mail back and forth Peek-a-Boo game, and not getting anywhere. The replies sometimes take as much as a week for an answer.

If anyone here has been in my shoes previously using Pinnacle Studio editing programs,then becoming a Grass Valley CANOPUS convert, please share your suggestions, as I would greatly appreciate it.

For now, I have about fifty VHS-C camcorder tapes I want to burn to DVD,since they are about 15 years old and are starting to go bad,but in the future, I also want to buy a HD Digital Camcorder and a Digital Canon D60 EOS, to also capture,edit,and burn to DVD, which I think would be much easier than the analog capture with using Pinnacle. So I would be ready and up to speed with the newer technology than old analog.

I may have to (begrudgingly) update from XP to Windows7, add more Memory, (up to 8GB from my existing 3.3GB) and a PCI express GPU with more than the 512 MB (now I'm using a GeForce NVidia 8600GT with 512MB) of video card memory to be able to video edit, and also a 1 or 2 TB HDD to move the capture video to, to free up resources, they say is my biggest problem. Thank you!

Last edited by Bozobyte; 02-06-2011 at 11:10 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:53 AM   #2
SoundFreak
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The Canopus ADVC-110 is seen by windows as a DV source, similar to a dv Camera, it should work with your editing software you have now, although I am compelled to tell I don't like those external plastiky boxes, search the forum on ADVC threads and be informed.
It would still be good for you to download the trail version of Neo or Edius to see how green the Grass is at the other side :)

p.s. the sync issue could be caused by a bad analog signal and as digital video is unforgiving it will drop video or audio frames hence the sync problem.
Even if you get the Canopus ADVC-110, it might (will) not fully help against a bad source, you'll need a (full raster) time base corrector (TBC).
This TBC will create a new sync signal and mix it with the video signalbefore being digitized by the ADVC.
Analog video is not as straight forward as capturing from a DV cam, a TBC will also cost you more than the ADVC, keep that in mind.

Be advised that if you play the footage on a TV (monitor) and all is well, no sync issues etc, it's often entirely different for a PC when it captures the data stream, a TV is very forgiving, a NLE is not.

If you have lots of analog source footage it might be viable to invest into all this, if it's only one or a few tapes it might be a lot more cost effective to ask someone with the right gear to do it for you to avoid disappointment when trying (struggling) your self.
It is however fun to do it yourself and try to improve the footage .................

note: I just re read your post you have fifty of them, and they are old (bad), you'll be confirmed needing a TBC, a good one ! and most likely NeatVideo etc. to clean things up.
There are many forums out there with users that can help you to clean analog video, many software tools to use but a good capture is vital, google it :)

Last edited by SoundFreak; 02-07-2011 at 04:04 AM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 03:34 PM   #3
dpalomaki
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I have tried several versions of Studio in the past and never been happy with it. Neo appears to be much better what little I have tried it. I am mainly using Edius now having moved over from Premiere via Liquid about nine months ago.

From what I hae read, the 110 is not very forgiving of video signals with poor synch or signal interruptions; the 300 is probably better in this regard. Some VHS players do include a level of TBC capability to improve synch signals. You may be able to beg or borrow one if you do not have one already. Also some of the analog video mixers offer some TBC capability; e.g., the Videonics MX-1 if you can find one, that may help.

Is the sound synch a case of drifting synch over time, or a fixed latency that may be the result of differeing delay between your PC's audio and video chain. The true test is the sound on anny DVD you produce when played back in a DVD player toa TV.

Last edited by dpalomaki; 02-07-2011 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 04:39 PM   #4
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The Videonics MX-1 brings back memories, 4 inputs on a 21'' tv while switching complety cut of from the preview of other cams as the 4 inputs turned to full screen mixed view with no way stopping it, and sync loss when long video cables were used, great times .......

Back to topic, that time base corrector could indeed help quite a bit, but your audio will be out of sync !

Another nice budget tbc would be data video TBC1000 (single channel full frame 4:2:2 TBC), 1 xy input 4 xy out, works great as a s-video splitter, I used it for both purpose for years with great success.

Last edited by SoundFreak; 02-07-2011 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 02-07-2011, 11:19 PM   #5
kbosward
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I've been using an old version of Pinnacle Studio (v9.4) for years with my ADVC-300. However I don't use PS to capture directly from the ADVC. This is because PS does not allow me to turn device control off, and so when it detects a break in the DV stream caused by loss of sync due to a tape glitch, it tells the ADVC to stop capturing. Very annoying!

Instead, I use the freeware WinDV or the shareware Scenalyzer, both of which allow me to turn device control off, so the ADVC happily captures for hours from even the worst tapes. (This would probably not be an issue if you had a TBC between the tape player and ADVC.)

Ken.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbosward View Post
the ADVC happily captures for hours from even the worst tapes. (This would probably not be an issue if you had a TBC between the tape player and ADVC.)

Ken.
If you capture a bad source it will drop frames and you will get audio sync problems, to avoid that to a minimum, capture 5 or 10 minutes slots, adjust audio and join them later, if you have 1 file of 1 or 2 hours the sync delay will be minutes :)

Of course to avoid all of this do you a TBC ................
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:39 PM   #7
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Not that I don't think you'd be happy with an ADVC110, but why were you capturing audio and video signals through different devices?

If you capture audio and video together on the same piece of hardware, the audio and video clocks will be synced together and you shouldn't run into A/V sync issues.

If you continue along the same path with separate input paths, you could still have A/V sync issues even with an ADVC capturing the video.

As the others have mentioned, video sync is also an issue. If sync is lost, you may end up with fewer captured video frames than corresponding audio frames.

This would result in the video image coming before the associated audio (video gets "ahead" of audio), regardless of method of capture.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:06 PM   #8
Bozobyte
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Thanks to all for chiming in ~

For GrassValley_BH
I have two different capture devices because that's what my option was when I first purchased the Studio 12 Movieboard, with the included PCI-500 capture device with ONLY Video IN/OUT, but no Audio on this pci device.

Pinnacle did include a L/R audio Y plug that was to plug into the separate audio input. To me, that's been the problem ever since of the audio not locking or syncing...two different capture audio and video devices. It's throughout the whole video. I thought analog capture would have been much easier than I have experienced. Thanks again.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:02 AM   #9
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Ahh, I see, thanks for clearing that up. I didn't realize Pinnacle made a board with only video.

Definitely the lack of synchronized clocks between the video and audio will cause headaches.

The ADVCs, as long as you input both audio and video together, and preview the two together, will maintain sync very well. The exception being what the others have noted - if the video sync is weak or damaged, then a TBC or other device that can repair the sync will be necessary.
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Old 02-13-2011, 05:16 AM   #10
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Pinnacle started out that way... so did the Bravado1000. you would bring video in through the card and then the audio though th sound card. The sync was hit and miss at best. :)
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