Grass Valley Forums Facebook   Twitter   YouTube  

Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Editors > EDIUS: Compatible Third Party Products

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2019, 12:14 PM   #1
Hobbes
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 33
Default HLG Colorgrading with MB Looks

I have made a tutorial for colorgrading my 8bit v-log footage of my Panasonic FZ2000 with Magic Bullet Looks in Edius 9.31. I don't have an HDR-Monitor, but they are getting more affordable. I have got good results with Looks and even better results with 10bit footage from the web.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EDOSWSTb1c
__________________
Carsten


Edius 9.31,TMPGEnc VMW 6, HandBrake 1.2.2, AE CS5, PR CS5, PS CS5, VC Element 3D, Quixel, Blender, Red Giant MB + Trapcode, Mocha Pro

i7 5820k, 32 Gb RAM,NH-U14S, MSI X99s SLI Plus, MSI GTX 1060, WIN 7 (SSD Samsung EVO 850), 3 HDD

Panasonic FZ2000 V-Log

TV Sony KD 55X8507C(4k HDR10/HLG), Player Sony UBP-X800 (UHD)

Last edited by Hobbes; 04-30-2019 at 08:22 PM.
Hobbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 03:04 PM   #2
ulyssesvideo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: sydney
Posts: 285
Default

so why cant you use the colour corrector in edius??
ulyssesvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 08:56 PM   #3
Hobbes
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulyssesvideo View Post
so why cant you use the colour corrector in edius??
Maybe you can get similar results in color correction with edius effects.

My main reason is, that I do not have a HDR-Monitor. If you make any little changes in the look, then you have to export the clip (h265) for your TV (UHD HDR) and verify the quality.

MB Looks is a very powerful plugin that makes colorgrading easier, because you have presets and many effects that are optimised for log-footage. But you have still to do a lot of tests.

And last but not least there are many tutorials for MB Looks at Red Giant's website.
__________________
Carsten


Edius 9.31,TMPGEnc VMW 6, HandBrake 1.2.2, AE CS5, PR CS5, PS CS5, VC Element 3D, Quixel, Blender, Red Giant MB + Trapcode, Mocha Pro

i7 5820k, 32 Gb RAM,NH-U14S, MSI X99s SLI Plus, MSI GTX 1060, WIN 7 (SSD Samsung EVO 850), 3 HDD

Panasonic FZ2000 V-Log

TV Sony KD 55X8507C(4k HDR10/HLG), Player Sony UBP-X800 (UHD)
Hobbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 12:34 AM   #4
ulyssesvideo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: sydney
Posts: 285
Default

is magic bullet designed for hlg?
ulyssesvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 01:47 AM   #5
Ron Evans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,807
Default

Are you trying to convert V-log-L to HLG or PQ10 ? There are presets in PCC for source and output for V-Log-L and HLG in EDIUS 8.53. It will be difficult if you do not have a monitor or scopes to set up output.
__________________
Ron Evans

Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 SATA OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro

ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS 8.53WG, Vegas 16, Resolve Studio 16


Cameras: GH5S, GH5, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V
Ron Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 11:05 AM   #6
Hobbes
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulyssesvideo View Post
is magic bullet designed for hlg?
no, it is not designed for HLG, but if your footage is Rec709 or log you can use it for colorgrading. If you want to grade to HLG it is necessary to shoot in log.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Are you trying to convert V-log-L to HLG or PQ10 ? There are presets in PCC for source and output for V-Log-L and HLG in EDIUS 8.53. It will be difficult if you do not have a monitor or scopes to set up output.
I use PCC to convert my log footage to HLG and do the white balance in PCC with a mask at white point and use the vectorscope to adjust the color. Then I use MB Looks for colorgrading to get the look that i want.

My footage is only 8bit, so my tests Show that I can only convert to HLG. A conversion to PQ10 will lead to banding. But you have a GH5 and Ninja V, you can convert to PQ10 and get a higher quality then HLG.
Yes, it is difficult to colorgrade without an HDR-Monitor, but it works with waveform and vectorscope in edius 9.31
__________________
Carsten


Edius 9.31,TMPGEnc VMW 6, HandBrake 1.2.2, AE CS5, PR CS5, PS CS5, VC Element 3D, Quixel, Blender, Red Giant MB + Trapcode, Mocha Pro

i7 5820k, 32 Gb RAM,NH-U14S, MSI X99s SLI Plus, MSI GTX 1060, WIN 7 (SSD Samsung EVO 850), 3 HDD

Panasonic FZ2000 V-Log

TV Sony KD 55X8507C(4k HDR10/HLG), Player Sony UBP-X800 (UHD)

Last edited by Hobbes; 05-01-2019 at 11:48 AM.
Hobbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 12:54 PM   #7
ulyssesvideo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: sydney
Posts: 285
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
no, it is not designed for HLG, but if your footage is Rec709 or log you can use it for colorgrading. If you want to grade to HLG it is necessary to shoot in log.



I use PCC to convert my log footage to HLG and do the white balance in PCC with a mask at white point and use the vectorscope to adjust the color. Then I use MB Looks for colorgrading to get the look that i want.

My footage is only 8bit, so my tests Show that I can only convert to HLG. A conversion to PQ10 will lead to banding. But you have a GH5 and Ninja V, you can convert to PQ10 and get a higher quality then HLG.
Yes, it is difficult to colorgrade without an HDR-Monitor, but it works with waveform and vectorscope in edius 9.31
how are you converting rec 709 log to hlg?? that's not possible as hlg has more colour information than rec709.


if you want to grade HLG you can either convert to rec709 and grade...then its not HLG anymore... if you want to keep HLG info on clips to export.. you must keep your settings to bt2020 from start to end. if you don't have a monitor to view HLG use your scopes within edius... you cant use MB to colour grade as it does not understand bt2020 HLG.

also just to make sure u understand.... vlog L is not HLG. so if your editing vlog L...why do you need a HLG monitor?

Last edited by ulyssesvideo; 05-01-2019 at 02:25 PM.
ulyssesvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 02:01 PM   #8
Ron Evans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 3,807
Default

Sony has HLG on some of their camcorders that is only 8 bit but Panasonic follows the spec and only provides HLG for 10 bit recording. You can get the dynamic range from V-Log-L but not the detail of 10 bit 4:2:2 specified in the spec. On the GH5 or GH5S 30P HLG is available in camera and to get 60P UHD HLG one needs to use an external recorder like my Ninja V. The cameras then do not record internally.
__________________
Ron Evans

Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 SATA OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro

ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS 8.53WG, Vegas 16, Resolve Studio 16


Cameras: GH5S, GH5, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V
Ron Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 06:14 PM   #9
Hobbes
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulyssesvideo View Post
how are you converting rec 709 log to hlg?? that's not possible as hlg has more colour information than rec709.


if you want to grade HLG you can either convert to rec709 and grade...then its not HLG anymore... if you want to keep HLG info on clips to export.. you must keep your settings to bt2020 from start to end. if you don't have a monitor to view HLG use your scopes within edius... you cant use MB to colour grade as it does not understand bt2020 HLG.

also just to make sure u understand.... vlog L is not HLG. so if your editing vlog L...why do you need a HLG monitor?
My footage is 8bit V-Log 100Mb/s UHD (Panasonic FZ2000). To get the highest possible quality that I can watch on my TV I convert my film to HLG. I make my project settings with bt2020HLG. Then I colorgrade my V-log footage with MB Looks in V-log and convert it with PCC to HLG. To watch this on a monitor it should be a HDR-Monitor, but it is still expensive so I do the colorgrading with the edius 9.31 HLG scopes . After that I export my film in HQX mov and encode it with HandBrake to h265 to get a compatible Export for my TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Sony has HLG on some of their camcorders that is only 8 bit but Panasonic follows the spec and only provides HLG for 10 bit recording. You can get the dynamic range from V-Log-L but not the detail of 10 bit 4:2:2 specified in the spec. On the GH5 or GH5S 30P HLG is available in camera and to get 60P UHD HLG one needs to use an external recorder like my Ninja V. The cameras then do not record internally.
Yes , your are right. My tutorial is about how I can get the best of my footage that is only 8bit V-log 100 Mb/s UHD. Alfter a lot of attempts my final Export is 10bit h265 VBR 60 Mb/s UHD.
__________________
Carsten


Edius 9.31,TMPGEnc VMW 6, HandBrake 1.2.2, AE CS5, PR CS5, PS CS5, VC Element 3D, Quixel, Blender, Red Giant MB + Trapcode, Mocha Pro

i7 5820k, 32 Gb RAM,NH-U14S, MSI X99s SLI Plus, MSI GTX 1060, WIN 7 (SSD Samsung EVO 850), 3 HDD

Panasonic FZ2000 V-Log

TV Sony KD 55X8507C(4k HDR10/HLG), Player Sony UBP-X800 (UHD)
Hobbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2019, 09:13 PM   #10
Hobbes
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Germany
Posts: 33
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Sony has HLG on some of their camcorders that is only 8 bit but Panasonic follows the spec and only provides HLG for 10 bit recording. You can get the dynamic range from V-Log-L but not the detail of 10 bit 4:2:2 specified in the spec. On the GH5 or GH5S 30P HLG is available in camera and to get 60P UHD HLG one needs to use an external recorder like my Ninja V. The cameras then do not record internally.
Yes, in my tutorial I want to get the best of my footage of the Panasonic FZ 2000 (8bit V-Log-L 100Mb/s UHD 4:2:0) to watch it in HDR (HLG) on TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulyssesvideo View Post
how are you converting rec 709 log to hlg?? that's not possible as hlg has more colour information than rec709.


if you want to grade HLG you can either convert to rec709 and grade...then its not HLG anymore... if you want to keep HLG info on clips to export.. you must keep your settings to bt2020 from start to end. if you don't have a monitor to view HLG use your scopes within edius... you cant use MB to colour grade as it does not understand bt2020 HLG.

also just to make sure u understand.... vlog L is not HLG. so if your editing vlog L...why do you need a HLG monitor?
My Project Setting is bt2020HLG. I do the colorgrading of the V-Log-L footage in MB Looks and convert that in PCC from V-Log-L to HLG. To see this I need a HLG-Monitor, but it is still expensive. So I have used the Edius 9.31 HLG waveform und HLG vectorscopes to get a good result.
__________________
Carsten


Edius 9.31,TMPGEnc VMW 6, HandBrake 1.2.2, AE CS5, PR CS5, PS CS5, VC Element 3D, Quixel, Blender, Red Giant MB + Trapcode, Mocha Pro

i7 5820k, 32 Gb RAM,NH-U14S, MSI X99s SLI Plus, MSI GTX 1060, WIN 7 (SSD Samsung EVO 850), 3 HDD

Panasonic FZ2000 V-Log

TV Sony KD 55X8507C(4k HDR10/HLG), Player Sony UBP-X800 (UHD)
Hobbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
 
Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Editors > EDIUS: Compatible Third Party Products
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HLG monitor for the desktop Claire Editing with EDIUS 8 01-21-2019 02:05 PM
Shooting Vlog and HLG but want to convert jeff8 Editing with EDIUS 0 10-20-2018 12:07 AM
SDR mapping to HLG signal goly Editing with EDIUS 0 10-15-2018 09:42 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:45 PM.


Copyright 2014 Belden Inc. All rights reserved.