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Old 06-10-2018, 05:19 AM   #1
southskies
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Default ADVC300 and Edius Pro

Up to now I have been capturing my VHS tape images using the ADVC 300 running on XP. I then use Handbrake on Win 7 to compress and reformat the file.

Raw file is around 32Gb, avi.
Compression through handbrake gets it down to around 200K, mkv file. I can rename the mkv back to avi, and it works through old TVs.

My ultimate usage is always TV. My target is always around 300K for a 3 hrs tape.

It has been suggested that I use Edius rather than Handbrake, as it is easier to use, and I'll get a better picture. So, I've downloaded Edius 9.0 Trial and will have a go with this.

Does anyone have any screen shots of what settings I should be using? What frame rates, bit rates should I be using in EDIUS? There are more settings than what you can poke a stick at.

I'm hoping to get some kind of set and forget settings and steps that I can use to bring the raw file in, for me to perhaps do chopping of the clip, then to export it out.

Any suggestions on where I start?
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:29 AM   #2
antonsvideo
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are you in an NTSC or Pal country?

if Pal, 25 fps top field first (50i) for VHS capture, 720x576
if NTSC, 29.97 fps with top field first (59.94i), 720x480 for DV or 720x486 for non DV
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Old 06-10-2018, 08:42 AM   #3
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Hi Anton, I'm in Australia, so will go with PAL settings
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:46 PM   #4
BernH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antonsvideo View Post
are you in an NTSC or Pal country?

if Pal, 25 fps top field first (50i) for VHS capture, 720x576
if NTSC, 29.97 fps with top field first (59.94i), 720x480 for DV or 720x486 for non DV
Since you are in Australia this doesn't apply to you, but I wanted to make a North America specific correction to Anton's post for others.

In NTSC land (North America):

HD 1920x1080 59.94i is always top field first with 0 IRE black.

720x480 DV is always bottom field first, with a 0 IRE black.(adopted directly from the Japanese NTSC-J, 0 IRE black and doesn't conform to the 7.5 IRE used in 720x486).

720x486, used more for SD Analog signals, can be either top or bottom field first with a 7.5 IRE black (NTSC-J, aka Japanese NTSC, regions use 0 IRE black), and different manufacturers have implemented the field dominance in different ways. some allow you to choose, while some are fixed. (ie. if I capture SD 720x486i at my day job with media composer using Avid 1:1 uncompressed, it is bottom field first.)

It's wonderful when the NTSC standard has no standard. Unlike PAL, whose minor variants are usually related to broadcast subcarrier frequencies or channel bandwidths, there are actually several variations on NTSC used throughout the world, such as NTSC-M, NTSC-J, and PAL-M, (PAL-M is actually just a little tweak of NTSC as it uses the same framerate and resolution), that usually have more changes than just the broadcast frequencies, so that even in the digital post production world there are differences to deal with.
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Last edited by BernH; 06-11-2018 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:08 AM   #5
antonsvideo
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Pal DV is also bottom field first but you never us a bottom field first project setting unless you intend to print to DV tape

so project setting always upper field regardless of source field order

also, when I capture VHS via my Matrox MX02 to GV HQ, the field order is upper field right away

only if using DVD capture from firewire or ADVC products, the files will be bottom field
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:44 PM   #6
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Wow, I've already started to get a headache and have only just finished getting my PC all properly backed up before I start.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:08 PM   #7
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I am progressing with capturing VHS PAL video through the ADVC300 into Edius 9.0

The capture setting I have used are as per Anton's site

https://www.videoproductions.com.au/html/dv-pal.html

Seems fine.

Now onto getting the settings right for the export.

Previously I used ffmpeg and handbrake to produce my file. A typical file specification of what I produced is as follows:

General
Unique ID : 272979437863244153614677900398270815189 (0xCD5DED675A3374818A4559E4637F1BD5)
Complete name : H:\Restored Video\rECOVER\Recovered data 07-08 00_21_17\Deep Scan result\Lost Partition1(NTFS)\VHS 2 Broken Hill.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 1.62 GiB
Duration : 3 h 39 min
Overall bit rate : 1 060 kb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2017-09-29T15:19:43Z
Writing application : HandBrake 0.10.5 2016021100
Writing library : Lavf55.12.0

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L3.1
Format settings : CABAC / 11 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames : 11 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 3 h 39 min
Nominal bit rate : 800 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.077
Writing library : x264 core 142 r2479 dd79a61
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=11 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x1:0x131 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=0 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=8 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=800 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=14000 / vbv_bufsize=14000 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.601 PAL
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : A_AAC-2
Duration : 3 h 39 min
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -21 ms
Title : Stereo
Default : Yes
Forced : No


With EDIUS, I chose the MPEG2 PAL 6Mbps VBR setting, 720X576 Preset, to generate one file, decreased it to 4000 kBPs to condense the file further, and altered the other advanced settings to be as per Anton's site

https://www.videoproductions.com.au/...am-export.html

The file I generated is as below:

General
Complete name : H:\test 4mbs.mpg
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 2.87 GiB
Duration : 1 h 35 min
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 4 326 kb/s

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Format settings, picture structure : Frame
Duration : 1 h 35 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 4 000 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.386
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Open
GOP, Open/Closed of first frame : Closed
Stream size : 2.65 GiB (92%)

Audio
ID : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 1 h 35 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 174 MiB (6%)
Service kind : Complete Main


Further details. I have attached these specs in the attached files if that is easier to read.

Usage: I will want to be able to watch these videos through both my PC as well as on TV's.

Compression: The compression I am aiming for is - 40Gb 3hrs (This is what EDIUS is capturing from the ADVC300) down to 5 Gb. To achieve this with the above preset, I'll have to drop the Bit rate down to 3000 kb/s

So, questions:

- How can I change the MPEG2 settings to be Deinterlaced? Should I be using a different export preset?
- Are there any benefits of using an AVC format over the MPEG2 format?
- How do I generate an AVC format similar to what I had before?

Any other advice on moving ahead?

Thanks!
Attached Files
File Type: txt File details - before.txt (3.8 KB, 0 views)
File Type: txt File details - after (EdIUS).txt (2.7 KB, 0 views)
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:55 PM   #8
antonsvideo
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VHS is interlaced, I would leave it interlaced

a TV can play an mpeg2 program stream file perfect and so can a PC

why do you need low bitrate? export to 15mbps mpeg2 PS

or reduce the file size with Handbrake but leave interlaced, upper field by typing tff=1 in extra options of handbrake

make sure EDIUS project setting is also upper field first, regardless of the fact that DV is captured with lower field first
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southskies View Post
Compression: The compression I am aiming for is - 40Gb 3hrs (This is what EDIUS is capturing from the ADVC300) down to 5 Gb. To achieve this with the above preset, I'll have to drop the Bit rate down to 3000 kb/s

So, questions:

- How can I change the MPEG2 settings to be Deinterlaced? Should I be using a different export preset?
- Are there any benefits of using an AVC format over the MPEG2 format?
- How do I generate an AVC format similar to what I had before?
This is entirely up to you, but 3000kb/s (a.k.a. 3Mb/s) is quite a high bitrate for Standard Definition MP4/MKV H264 files (the kind handbrake makes). I would do a few test encodes and drop the bitrate until you find the acceptable lower limit. I have seen SD encodes under 1000kb/s (1Mb/s) that still look great, depending of course on the encoder and the settings. Most of my SD encoded I tend to keep at around 1200kb/s to 1500kb/s but with critical evaluation of my setting and some testing, I'm pretty sure I could probably get down further if I wanted to. However, I will say that the noisier the video, the more it will suffer from lower bitrates, (i.e. VHS).

If you are using the MPEG2 files to feed Handbrake, there is no need to de-interlace the MPEG2. Handbrake has de-interlace settings. I usually leave it set as decomb, as that one only kicks in when it detects visual combing, but a static shot will retain all detail. If you want to retain the interlacing in Handbrake, you need to add tff=1 or bff=1, depending on the field dominance, to it's extra options field on the video tab.

What you are calling AVC is H264/X264. This is what Handbrake does. The benefits to it are that it will give equivalent quality at a smaller file size or better quality at the same file size, or some balance point in between.

Handbrake is ffmpeg under the hood. Most the the GUI settings are just making those ffmpeg command line settings you are used to, and many of them, if not available in the main GUI, can be added in the extra options field on the video tab
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:19 PM   #10
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When I was playing the video through VLC, the horizontal lines associated with the interlace were quite significant. Using 15mbps was going to give me quite a large output file.

The compression I can get through H264/X264 without adversely affecting the qualify seems to be a good thing, but I seem to be back where I started - having to use two separate software packages to get the end result (EDIUS for the editting, Handbrake for the Compression)
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