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Old 06-29-2019, 01:45 PM   #1
Liverpool TV
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Default Edius 9 H.265 no 4:2:2 option

I'm trying out the H.265 exporter in Edius 9 and I can't seem to get it to export in 4:2:2

My sources are 10 Bit 4:2:2 and the project is also set the same.

It's all 60 FPS and this happens with both 1080 and 4K/UHD.

I've tried every permutation for the output parameters but the 4:2:2 option remains unselectable. Odd thing is that I can select 4:2:2 in H.264 also using QS.

There's a possibility that I may have missed something, has anyone else come across this.

Cheers,
Dave.
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Last edited by Liverpool TV; 06-29-2019 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:16 PM   #2
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Since we are using Intel hardware IIRC it depends on what the chip/SDK supports for that specific chip.
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Old 06-29-2019, 09:21 PM   #3
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In tests with a 7700k and Edius, the only 10bit I was able to produce was 4:2:0. This may change with Icelake and Tigerlake chips.
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:42 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassValley_SL View Post
Since we are using Intel hardware IIRC it depends on what the chip/SDK supports for that specific chip.
Hi Steve.

Can you give an example of what CPUs/iGPUs it does work with please.

Iíve now tried it on a couple of systems and canít get it to work. The strange thing is that both systems are capable of 10 Bit 4:2:2 with QS as Iím able to do it with other QS encoding software.

Cheers,
Dave.
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If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:32 AM   #5
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This may answer your questions.

https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/enable-10bpp
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
Hi Jerry.

I’m not sure that you’ve understood the question, you’ve pointed to a document about bit depth which equates to dynamic range, I’m asking about chroma sub sampling, which is independent of bit depth and dynamic range.

Also, the document is over two years old and is giving an instance of a CPU that’s two generations older than one of those that I’ve tried.

Plus, the document doesn’t mention what CPUs/iGPUs that give, or don’t give, access to certain parameters of the QS encoding.

BTW. I’ve tried a gen 8 and gen 9 CPU but Edius won’t allow for 4:2:2 on either but both where able to do 4:2:2 encoding using QS in another application.

For anyone else who may be reading this thread, do any of you out there have the option and if so what CPU are you using.

Cheers,
Dave.
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If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?

Last edited by Liverpool TV; 06-30-2019 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 06-30-2019, 12:04 PM   #7
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The last chip I tested that had HEVC capabilities was the 7700k. This had the Intel 630 graphics package. This is the same graphics package that is on the 9900k. I could only get HEVC 10bit 4:2:0 from the hardware. I've never been able to get 4:2:2 hardware output using QS and Edius.

The graphics package is not changing until Icelake and then again with Tigerlake Intel X2 graphics.

HEVC first showed up with the Intel 530 graphics package. HEVC was only 8bit on export.

If you are able to get 4:2:2 non-HEVC and HEVC using Intel Graphics 630 hardware from within a different NLE, then it would point to an implementation limitation within Edius.

Then I have to ask, which NLE can do that? Was Premiere/Media Encoder capable of doing that with hardware?
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Last edited by Jerry; 06-30-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 06-30-2019, 01:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
The last chip I tested that had HEVC capabilities was the 7700k. This had the Intel 630 graphics package. This is the same graphics package that is on the 9900k. I could only get HEVC 10bit 4:2:0 from the hardware. I've never been able to get 4:2:2 hardware output using QS and Edius.

The graphics package is not changing until Icelake and then again with Tigerlake Intel X2 graphics.

HEVC first showed up with the Intel 530 graphics package. HEVC was only 8bit on export.

If you are able to get 4:2:2 non-HEVC and HEVC using Intel Graphics 630 hardware from within a different NLE, then it would point to an implementation limitation within Edius.

Then I have to ask, which NLE can do that? Was Premiere/Media Encoder capable of doing that with hardware?
Hi Jerry.

I've a feeling that QS H.265 4:2:2 isn't possible at all from Edius, which is why I was querying about what CPU's iGPU/QS did do it within Edius. I've tried a 630 and another one but no luck.

The odd thing is that QS H.264 from within Edius can do 4:2:2 and at either 8 or 10 Bit.

What I find more strange is why 4:2:2 wouldn't be the de facto chroma option for anything 10 Bit. I can't work out why you'd want 10 Bit 4:2:0 for anything that's 10 Bit. Is this maybe something specific for a specific target/platform?

Maybe there's a specific HDR target that's 10 Bit 4:2:0? Although I wouldn't have thought it would be too practical to give something the dynamic range capabilities of 10 Bit but without the colour resolution/accuracy of 4:2:2.

Ah, just thinking off the top of my head as I writing this post and just mentioning HDR. Maybe QS 4:2:2 only becomes active within the exporter when the project itself is set 2020 or is set to a specific HDR setting. I'll have to check that tomorrow/Tuesday when back on my main system.

I'll also let you know what did QS 4:2:2 as I can't remember right now. It definitely wasn't an NLE though. I've been doing a whole bunch of software vs hardware tests using various encoding applications and using QS, NVENC and the AMD one. It was one of the encoding apps using QS that even Edius seen as 4:2:2.

There also seems to be differences with one QS encode from one app compared to another app doing QS when selecting the same parameters. I'd always thought that QS was something that was standardised as far as options were concerned and that any encoder using QS would only have options that were available via Intel's implementation. I've had the same source file producing different outputs from different apps using the same settings.

If you're into such things let me know and I'll PM you some links to some of the preliminary test files from my tests so far.

I will be doing a couple of YouTube videos with my final results that I'll post here on the forum for anyone interested in such things.

Cheers,
Dave.
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If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?
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Old 06-30-2019, 01:40 PM   #9
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My exports with the 7700k, were from 10bit UHD 59.94p and 29.97p HDR projects. Export was still 4:2:0. These tests were done well over a year ago.

I found that Intel had made the Main 10 Profile for 10 bit as 4:2:0. Like you, I was expecting 4:2:2. However, after creating several UHD 10bit HDR HEVC exports and playing them back on my LG 4K TV, I was pleasantly surprised.


If there is a hardware 4:2:2 QS version, I haven't seen it. As I said before, this may change with Icelake and Tigerlake. My guess is the biggest change will be with Tigerlake. It will be using the Intel X2 GPU architecture.

This is an old thread talking about the same things:
https://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/...quicksync+HEVC
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Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf

Main System: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, 4790K@4.7Ghz, 32gb ram, Corsair H110, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, HD Spark, Intensity Shuttle, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Benq 27 and Hanns-G 28 monitors, CC 2019, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
Both systems on Gigabit network
Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, 980x@3.74, Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

Last edited by Jerry; 06-30-2019 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:52 PM   #10
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I think h265 is 4:2:0 anyway for version 1. Testing with ProRes 4:2:2 10 bit source to x265 or NVENC results in the same 4:2:0 file. There is more detail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_E...Coding#Main_10. There is a nice table in that write up. I expect the current codecs we use are Version 1 MAIN 10 for HDR so will all be 4:2:0. At least all the encoders I have available to me with TMPGenc 7 or Resolve are Main 10.
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