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Old 05-11-2007, 12:57 AM   #1
Videopro123
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Default Upper field first the only option in Procoder3

I was rendering footage from my ADVC300 from premiere 2 timeline into procoder 3 with DVD MPEG2 as the target. I noticed for interlacing that the only option is now Upper field first. I was told in the past it should be lower field first if coming from the ADVC300. What is the correct answer?
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:17 AM   #2
shueardm
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The source is lower first but the target can be upper first. As long as the source is recognized correctly it wont matter.
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Old 05-11-2007, 09:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
What is the correct answer?
it depends....

If you need to encode bff, use the generic ISO MPEG Stream-target.
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:28 AM   #4
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But why isn't there a choice to output UFF or LFF (or BFF and TFF if you prefer!)?
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Old 05-11-2007, 12:07 PM   #5
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i do not know and i do not have any idea why not.
There is the possibility via ISO-stream, so im happy with PC3.
Theres no compatibility-issue or whatever that makes sense for me to restrict the bff-setting - but maybe a GV-member can explain this.
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Old 05-11-2007, 03:26 PM   #6
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mark_m/timo,

Mark's original reply is correct, your source field order (input) doesn't need to match the ultimate output (target). With the case of mpeg2 output for dvd creation, you actually do want it to be UFF(I'll get to that later).

The confusion comes from the fact that Procoder actually allows you to tweak a lot of settings--including setting the input field order and output field order. Many encoders don't allow you to do either, and some allow you access to the input field order, with even fewer giving you the ability to tweak output settings. The critical issue here is the INPUT setting--it must match the source material, or you will have poor results. Procoder generally does a good job of selecting the proper input field order for you (and in the case of DV material, it should be LFF). If for some reason Procoder doesn't do that for you (with whatever source type you are using), you can override it with your own setting. For the most part, this is something you shouldn't touch.

Output field order is completely separate from the above. Procoder will make the necessary changes for you with the encode. With mpeg2 for dvd output (standard definition dvd), you do want UFF, and that's why it's the default setting. There are still set top players that will only accept UFF mpeg 2 files for playback (although with time that number is shrinking). LFF encoded mpeg2 files run the risk of not playing properly, or not at all. Again, the number of set top players that can't handle LFF is probably pretty small; but never the less, UFF is more broadly accepted.

Can you override PC 3's choice of UFF? Sure, through the generic mpeg setting. Would I recommend doing that--no.

Jim

PS I'm not a part of the GV team, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn. :o)
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:30 PM   #7
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@ WTS1

basically you are right.
But i have never seen a Player which does not accept bff DVDs ( which are encoded and authored correctly )
So if the source is bff i do not change this - it makes no sense.
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Old 05-11-2007, 05:07 PM   #8
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Well, I know it sounds confusing, but it is what it is.

I didn't make the dvd spec or player 'rules', but that is why PC has the default set the way it is. My explanation probably just confuses the matter further, but you don't have to have your input field order match your output field order. In fact, there are times when you need to make a change for the file to work properly at all (like a mixed timeline edit with SD and HD material and you want to output to a final HD file format).

The bottom line is that using UFF for target/output (in this particular situation) WON'T have any negative impact just because the source file was LFF, and on a rare instance, it will be superior (to LFF). LFF for output (as you've experienced) will probably not have any major impact for many here because the disc distribution is relatively small. Hollywood style discs use UFF because the distribution is large enough that someone out there will have a problem. Why mess with a setting that is the best?

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Old 05-11-2007, 05:49 PM   #9
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i just do not want to do any fieldshifting, its wasting quality.
Field encoding ( one of PC2/3 strength ) is also part of the DVDspec - and nobody is using it ;-)
Of course: a lot of these things are just minimum differences in quality, but if there are a couple of these small things in the workflow-chain the customer will see the difference.
Good to know; and good to know when to use ( and when not )
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Old 05-11-2007, 07:34 PM   #10
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Just so you know, the difference in the field shift won't affect the quality. No worries there. I understand why some have the hesitation to use the default, but it's not based on fact. Rather, it's taking what is known to cause a problem (field reversal on file input) and applying it to output (which is unrelated). There is no boogie man in the closet, really.

In the old forum, this topic was beaten to death with similar misperceptions. I think I will leave it at that.

Field encoding is a separate issue, and (again from the old forum) there was a problem with field encoded files that PC produced (something that Dominique found out at the time). It is not a default setting in PC whereas UFF is. This is an example where switching from the default might cause you some real issues.

Hmmm....maybe I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn.

Jim
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