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Old 10-11-2019, 11:05 AM   #1
Haddock
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Default Archiving capture videos files

Hello Ediusers,

I am scanning (capturing) a lot of VHS files. Qualities varies of course. Some excellent, others.... but OK these are generally family souvenirs.

I do this capture from a Sony SVO-9620. It is the best I have found, in perfect state and with a VUmeter tracking to have the best output video images.

This capture is done in Canopus HQ.

After editing to produce DVD or MP4 files (Edius 9.50 at 9000) for the client, I archive the genuine files and project on HD. But that takes some places and... here is my question :

if I decide to leave the HQ files and convert these in another codec taking less place but holding enough quality for future editing...what would you recommend starting from Edius.

I insist on starting from Edius 9.50...

I think about MP4 (but not sure) and in this case what should the best and sufficent parameters... ?

Thanks for advice
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Yvon durieux alias "Haddock" Belgium GMT + 1

Sorry for my poor english, I am french native speaking

Main System: Azus Z87 Pro, 4770K@3.5Ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia GeForce GT 630, Windows 7 Pro 64, Samsung 840 pro, Edius 8.53.2808 WG and 9.40.4896 + NXexpress or HDspark, 2T separate video SSD.

Last edited by Haddock; 10-11-2019 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Video files
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Old 10-11-2019, 11:24 AM   #2
antonsvideo
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the smallest file for future editing would be HD mpeg2 at 25mbps and PCM audio with closed GOP

or SD mpeg2 at 15mbps with PCM audio and closed GOP

mpeg2 files with closed GOP are easy to edit
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Old 10-11-2019, 04:08 PM   #3
BernH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antonsvideo View Post
the smallest file for future editing would be HD mpeg2 at 25mbps and PCM audio with closed GOP

or SD mpeg2 at 15mbps with PCM audio and closed GOP

mpeg2 files with closed GOP are easy to edit
I'd 2nd Anton's comments about MPEG2 being a good choice for your purposes. MPEG2 is a very easy to edit, mature codec and it was the codec of choice for several edit systems, such as Fast/Pinnacle Liquid/Chrome, Matrox Digisuite, Sony Xpri, and several others.

Variations on the MPEG2 codec are what have become HDV, XDCAM, XDCAMHD, IMX, and the preferred codec for most broadcast video playout servers.

The point I would like to add though, is that the bitrates Anton mentions are not written in stone. Depending on the quality of the source footage in regards to noise levels and content motion, you may find that you need to adjust the bitrates higher to retain quality if the video is not good, or if the video is noise free and has little motion, you may be able to reduce the bitrates a bit.

Ultimately though, if you don't want to test encode for quality vs file size, If I were you, I would probably do the SD stuff at a slightly higher bitrate to allow a little headroom for the worst of the vhs source material. Maybe somewhere around 18Mbps instead of the 15mbps Anton mentioned.

The file size difference shouldn't be too much with 15mbps giving you about 112.5MB/minute and 18Mbps giving you about 135MB/minute, but the extra 3Mbps in the bitrate can make a big difference.
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Old 10-12-2019, 03:41 PM   #4
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Thanks very much for your recommendations. Both of you. I will try this and see also the spare of place compared to the genuine Canopus HQ.

I appreciate very much your reliable advice.
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Yvon durieux alias "Haddock" Belgium GMT + 1

Sorry for my poor english, I am french native speaking

Main System: Azus Z87 Pro, 4770K@3.5Ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia GeForce GT 630, Windows 7 Pro 64, Samsung 840 pro, Edius 8.53.2808 WG and 9.40.4896 + NXexpress or HDspark, 2T separate video SSD.
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Old 10-12-2019, 05:16 PM   #5
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For the long term, if someone else may need to use these files a more standard codec than Canopus may be better to keep. MPEG2 or even mp4 will be more universal across different platforms and even directly for playback on a TV. Now that EDIUS 9.5 can export ProRes that also would be an option.
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Old 10-14-2019, 09:24 AM   #6
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Thanks also Ron for you advice. It joins previous answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by BernH View Post
I'd 2nd Anton's comments about MPEG2 being a good choice for your purposes. MPEG2 is a very easy to edit, mature codec and it was the codec of choice for several edit systems, such as Fast/Pinnacle Liquid/Chrome, Matrox Digisuite, Sony Xpri, and several others.....
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Yvon durieux alias "Haddock" Belgium GMT + 1

Sorry for my poor english, I am french native speaking

Main System: Azus Z87 Pro, 4770K@3.5Ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia GeForce GT 630, Windows 7 Pro 64, Samsung 840 pro, Edius 8.53.2808 WG and 9.40.4896 + NXexpress or HDspark, 2T separate video SSD.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:24 PM   #7
Haddock
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Here are result of first test :

MPG2 in HD is taking 50 % of bytes compare to genuine canopus-hq in SD.
So spare of place is real....
The problem is that I have to export and that takes 3,8 times the real time.
So a one hour VHS K7 that takes one hour to capture in SD will need around 3.8 hours to export in MPG2-HD...

I do not think it's worth it.

Thanks anyway for your advices
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Yvon durieux alias "Haddock" Belgium GMT + 1

Sorry for my poor english, I am french native speaking

Main System: Azus Z87 Pro, 4770K@3.5Ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia GeForce GT 630, Windows 7 Pro 64, Samsung 840 pro, Edius 8.53.2808 WG and 9.40.4896 + NXexpress or HDspark, 2T separate video SSD.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haddock View Post
Here are result of first test :

MPG2 in HD is taking 50 % of bytes compare to genuine canopus-hq in SD.
So spare of place is real....
The problem is that I have to export and that takes 3,8 times the real time.
So a one hour VHS K7 that takes one hour to capture in SD will need around 3.8 hours to export in MPG2-HD...

I do not think it's worth it.

Thanks anyway for your advices
That seems like a long time indeed. I can usually export into MPEG2 a lot quicker than that (If I recall correctly about 1/5th real time, unfortunately though, I am not in front of my system to confirm that time at the moment, so you will have to forgive me if my memory on this is flawed)
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Last edited by BernH; 10-15-2019 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:00 PM   #9
Haddock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernH View Post
That seems like a long time indeed. I can usually export into MPEG2 a lot quicker than that (If I recall correctly about 1/5th real time, unfortunately though, I am not in from of my system to confirm that time at the moment, so you will have to forgive me if my memory on this is flawed)
No problem Bern, I understand. I must underline that the test was done on a very bad video that I have captured... lot of noise and some dropouts and traces of wear ... this complicate a lot, I think, the encoding. Unfortunately, majority of family souvenir's are in bad shape.
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Yvon durieux alias "Haddock" Belgium GMT + 1

Sorry for my poor english, I am french native speaking

Main System: Azus Z87 Pro, 4770K@3.5Ghz, 16gb ram, Nvidia GeForce GT 630, Windows 7 Pro 64, Samsung 840 pro, Edius 8.53.2808 WG and 9.40.4896 + NXexpress or HDspark, 2T separate video SSD.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:03 PM   #10
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For pure archive, Iíd go with Antonís suggestion. MPEG2 works on so many levels.

The ability to capture direct to it is also a time saver.

Itís been a while but I think Edius will smart render it as well. Which means you can edit and export MPG2 without quality loss for sections that donít have any added overlays or picture manipulation.

As Bern has pointed out, the entire video/TV and even parts of the film industry used it as its main codec for a very long time and still does for certain applications.

Bern, do you remember the first time you got your hands on anything with a C-Cube chip in it and you could do real-time 2D character generating and a few MPEG2 decodes in REAL TIME? Ahh, those were the days :)
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