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Old 05-21-2019, 09:45 PM   #1
tryingtolearn
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Default Mp4 Creation and people who render with Handbrake

Hey guys, so I'm sure many of you know that on occasion when I've had issue exporting as MP4 the main response I've gotten on THIS edius forum is to do it with handbrake instead, and when I've argued back or questioned back asking why Edius can't get it right, I've been told handbrake is superior and to use that .. without much explanation as to why Edius was having the problems (IE people suggest transcoding with handbrake rather than troubleshooting what went wrong in the MP4)

I said something about handbrake on the edius facebook group, and was met with some very verbally abusive responses saying that nobody should ever have to use another program, handbrake or otherwise, and that anyone suggesting it was stupid or should be banned.. I tried to explain that that was the general consensus of advice often given in this group, but intsead of anyone answering me legitimately I was just vomited more abuse in the apparent official edius facebook group

It seems really confusing to me to get such varied reactions from this forum, vs the facebook thread

Obviously I ask questions because I want or need answers, and I always appreciate when I'm given answers that help me, but I'm really confused on this topic

I'm also confused by the extreme division between the facebook group answers and the answers here

help clarifying would be awesome. thanks guys
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Old 05-21-2019, 10:53 PM   #2
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First of all there is nothing WRONG with the h.264 from EDIUS. That is just misinformation (and as such you should not pass it on). What has been said here (and is true) is that using Handbrake will give you better quality in some instances.

The best information is given here. This is a specific forum. Facebook is Facebook. There is more misinformation than real information in general. Although you may get some good information there it is a crapshoot.

It is safe to say that you will find more power users and "experts" here than you will on any Facebook page. This is also the place that has direct connections to GV.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassValley_PS View Post
What has been said here (and is true) is that using Handbrake will give you better quality in some instances.
Without having scientific data to verify my statement, pro users here found out that Handbrake is able to make more out of a good master - if you know which buttons you need to push in Handbrake. Generally it follows the rule:

# If same file size, Handbrake has a little more visible quality.
# If same visible quality, Handbrake manages to have less file size.
# To reach a significant optimization at all, Handbrake needs to be used with (almost) best quality settings - which results in tremendously longer render time compared to hardware accelerated Edius-h.264.

Try it on yourself: Take a one-minute-sequence in an Edius project and
# export an h.264 directly from Edius timeline. While doing so, measure the time Edius needs to export.
# after that, export the same timeline as a max-quality avi (GV HQX) and let in run through Handbrake in max quality. While doing so, measure both export/render times and add them.
# then: compare. Does it look different? And how much do the file sizes differ? And how much different is the export/render time on your computer?

Now you have all three factors (visible quality, file size, export/render time) to judge which way to go.
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Last edited by Captain; 05-21-2019 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:06 AM   #4
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Thank you for your clarification! - The Edius Facebook group is being passed off as official - is that not the case then?
if I sent them the link to this page they would probably get more angry.

They kept saying if I was getting better results in another program then it meant that I was stupid and not setting my export settings correctly.

I tried explaining that handbrake is regularly suggested here on this official forum but they refused to believe me
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Old 05-22-2019, 01:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassValley_PS View Post
First of all there is nothing WRONG with the h.264 from EDIUS. That is just misinformation (and as such you should not pass it on). What has been said here (and is true) is that using Handbrake will give you better quality in some instances.

The best information is given here. This is a specific forum. Facebook is … Facebook. There is more misinformation than real information in general. Although you may get some good information there it is a crapshoot.

It is safe to say that you will find more power users and "experts" here than you will on any Facebook page. This is also the place that has direct connections to GV.
Totally agree . Also in 9.4 we do have more improvements for the encoding. Fast start is available.

There are some that have not tried the improvements and are posting with experiences with older versions of EDIUS. Granted to say that at real lower rates some external encoder with multipass will provide a bit better quality.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:19 AM   #6
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I have been following the conversation on that Facebook forum and they have told her repeatedly that there is NOTHING WRONG with the MP4 exporter in Edius and that there is "nothing to fix." They also explained why it is sometimes advantageous to use Handbrake in certain instances just as explained here. She is misquoting them and the users here who have tried to help her to no avail.

She also said below that if she sent them the link to this thread, they would get more angry, so, of course, she posted the link to this thread on that Facebook group. Obviously she is trying to provoke disagreement when there is none.

They finally said that if she is getting better results with Handbrake, she should just use that, which is good advice.

I have never had an issue with the MP4 exporter in Edius if the data rate is kept high enough. If I have to produce a very small file with good quality, then obviously a two-pass encoder like Handbrake is the proper tool for the job. That was pointed out to her on Facebook and here.

I applaud those who continue to try and point her in the right direction, but why bother?

Finally, the Edius Facebook group never passed itself off as being official, whatever that means.
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Last edited by LewS; 05-22-2019 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:07 AM   #7
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Time to put the record straight.
Sky Simone aka tryingtolearn posted on Facebook (screenshot attached)
"everyone in the Edius Forum...all say Edius has problems transcoding MP4"

Where are "everyone" ?

On Facebook you also posted "the default mp4 settings and they just don’t work - many people in the edits forum promote exporting with handbrake as edits stuffs it up - edits needs to fix this"

By "edits I assume you mean Edius, so what exactly is "stuffs it up" and what is it that needs to be fixed? I would suggest what needs to be fixed is the ability for you to take on board ANYTHING that you are told given you have been asking about mp4 here for over 4 years.

Here you claim that "I said something about handbrake on the edius facebook group, and was met with some very verbally abusive responses saying that nobody should ever have to use another program, handbrake or otherwise, and that anyone suggesting it was stupid or should be banned.. I tried to explain that that was the general consensus of advice often given in this group, but intsead of anyone answering me legitimately I was just vomited more abuse in the apparent official edius facebook group"

My reply is also attached. Since when has telling the truth and responding to Libellous comments ever been abuse. Personally I'm surprised the GV lawyers arent over you like a rash and being banned from the forums would be the least of your worries. GV and the forums as a minimum should have an apology.

...and BTW whilst I have been using Handbrake since the very early days, as I found out last week, sometimes EDIUS does a better job. https://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/...706#post320706
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:50 AM   #8
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I use 3 options.

1. The Edius encoder. This gives a very good encode for a single pass encoder.
You have the QS encode which is fast and depending on the bitrate, between OK to good.
Then you have the software version which runs off of the cores. If you have Edius 9, the encode will be faster than in previous versions because Edius 9 utilizes the cores better.

2. The TMPGE Movie AVC Plugin encoder. This gives excellent encodes with many options including dual pass directly from the Edius timeline. It is slower than the Edius encoder, but has many more setting options to improve quality.

3. Handbrake. Not a plugin. So, there is a time factor in creating an intermediary file to import into Handbrake.
I mainly use Handbrake to shrink file size. It retains the quality and shrinks the file size considerably.
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Old 05-23-2019, 05:02 AM   #9
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more info is here: https://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/...ad.php?t=36981

But the response from Andreas was basically that two pass encoding from Handbrake yields better results in some situations (as reflected in the advice above)

Also good advice not to bother with Social Media apps.

Always try searching here first. Forum members are very helpful...after a search!!!
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Old 05-24-2019, 04:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryingtolearn View Post
Thank you for your clarification! - The Edius Facebook group is being passed off as official - is that not the case then?
if I sent them the link to this page they would probably get more angry.

They kept saying if I was getting better results in another program then it meant that I was stupid and not setting my export settings correctly.

I tried explaining that handbrake is regularly suggested here on this official forum but they refused to believe me
The Facebook page has NEVER been passed off as official and it has never been stated that way. I would appreciate it if you would not say things that are not true in anyway.
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