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Old 02-21-2018, 08:30 AM   #1
Steady Hand
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Question Mastering multiple audio channels

Hi!

I'm rather new to multi-channel audio, and I'm trying my first project. I have a number of open questions (after collecting a lot of facts and hints), however:
  • Is the assignment of output channels dependent on the final audio codec being used? I read the AC-3 uses a different channel assignment (like L C R...) than other codecs that use L R ... A definitive reference (in the EDIUS manual) would be great!
  • If I mapped track channels to output channels in a sequence, and then I put that sequence on a track, how does channel mapping work in that track? Are the input channels now the output channels of the sequence included, or are they the original track channels (as defined in the sequence)?
  • If I only have stereo playback capabilities (poor me, yes!), should I use a dummy mapping to assign all channels to left and right, just to hear everything? (I discovered that the audio mixer has a small icon that allows to set output to stereo, also, but I'm unsure what mapping it uses (is it documented somewhere?).
  • It seems that EDIUS can only assign a track channel to an output channel 0 or 100%, while sometimes one would like to mix the track channel to multiple output channels (i.e. place the sound source in e.g. 5.1 space). In other programs there is a tool for that, but not in EDIUS.
  • Some commercial DVDs or BluRays feature multiple audio tracks, like different languages, or different audio encodings (stereo, 5.1, etc.). Is it possible to create such a master with EDIUS?
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:48 AM   #2
David Clarke
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Are you talking about multi-channel audio or surround sound?

Multi-channel means you have several audio channels in the final file and you can route specific audio tracks in EDIUS to them. Imagine you have 4 output channels and 4 tracks on the timeline.
Track 1 can be the natural sound which gets output to audio channel 1
Track 2 is music which goes to audio output 2
Track 3 could be voice over which goes to output 3.
Track 4 is sound effects which go to output 4.

You then have a final file which at a later date you can load into EDIUS and split the audio up into its different parts - natural sound, music etc. This is used a lot for archiving. It is bad for playing because most players are stereo so what will the playing program do with the different tracks - either mix it in some odd way or ignore it completely.

Surround sound produces 6 separate audio channels which get sent to different speakers on playback. This is where you could get into problems of making sure the right channel goes to the right track.

EDIUS cannot mix surround sound. If you route track 1 to the left output channel it is 100% just that. With EDIUS you would mix it in something else and then put it on the right tracks in EDIUS so the output is 5.1.

EDIUS audio monitoring mode is only in the Workgroup version and used to make sure you can hear all the tracks when editing. However, if mixing surround sound get surround sound speakers. I have tried doing it on just stereo and it is a waste of time.

Having different audio tracks on a DVD is a completely different thing to the number of output channels in the project. EDIUS does not let you have more than one audio track on a DVD.
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:16 AM   #3
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Actually what I want to do is kind of synthetic surround (5.1 AC-3): Video has stereo sound which should go to front left/right, voice comments should go to the center, background stereo music should go to back left/right, and I don't really have a source for LFE.
As it seems EDIUS cannot create the LFE (you would have to mix all channels and apply a low pass filter).
Obviously 5.1 sound could be better if EDIS had a real channel mixer (not just on/off).
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:23 AM   #4
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Audition is great for fake 5.1 creation, it has center extraction and lfe filtering as well as phase reversal for rear L and R.

Adding delays and reverb makes a great impact on spacial feel.

Paul :-)
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Old 02-21-2018, 12:05 PM   #5
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You have to really mix it in something else - like Audition, as Paul says. I would still want to be able to monitor the mix in EDIUS and in my other program otherwise you don't find out until you have made your final file. And then how do you fix it? Trial and error?

In EDIUS I can listed to surround sound through my on board sound card with some surround sound speakers. You have to be in OHCI mode so any Blackmagic i/o device is disabled and you can only watch on the PC screen, so it is good enough for just listening to the sound.

Most audio programs prefer an ASIO sound card for outputting surround sound, so you may want to look at getting one. EDIUS will output through one of these as well, but only in OHCI mode.

Theoretically, you can get surround sound out through the HDMI on some Blackmagic cards but it does not seem to work with most HDMI amplifiers. It would also not help you in a separate sound program.

I did a short bit on routing channels for surround sound on one of my videos which you can see here:
http://www.dvctraining.co.uk/shop/10_edius_secrets.html
It is in the third part.

This was with EDIUS 7 but it has not changed much.
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:14 PM   #6
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I use a BM card with asio and it works well with Audition, Ppro, Vegas and Edius but channel mapping is different between apps, often the centre and lfe are reversed, there's always a lot of testing to be done.

One thing to be really careful about is the BM desktop drivers, some versions work and others don't, with your HDMI 5.1 output that is, I've struggled for hours trying to get a system up and running only to find the drivers are the problem.

Paul :-)
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:13 PM   #7
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Are you using the BM as the system sound card because they do not recommend that. Are you only monitoring through HDMI?
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Old 02-21-2018, 11:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Actually what I want to do is kind of synthetic surround (5.1 AC-3): Video has stereo sound which should go to front left/right, voice comments should go to the center, background stereo music should go to back left/right, and I don't really have a source for LFE.
As it seems EDIUS cannot create the LFE (you would have to mix all channels and apply a low pass filter).
Obviously 5.1 sound could be better if EDIS had a real channel mixer (not just on/off).
1. You need a Steady Hand :)
2. You need EDIUS 6.5 or 7.53 or 8WG or 9WG
3. set project setting to 6 channel audio
4. create a stairstep sequence map as seen in attached
https://www.videoproductions.com.au/...1-surround.mp4
5. set audio mixer monitoring mode to stereo mode so you can hear the sounds from all 6 channels while editing (not available in 8Pro or 9Pro)
https://www.videoproductions.com.au/...nitor-mode.png
6. place sound to the desired 6 tracks
7. when done, set audio mixer monitoring mode to off
8. export to DVD or Blu-ray and make sure that 5.1 surround is enabled in audio settings of the disk burner
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