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Old 12-26-2017, 11:59 AM   #11
zvit
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Originally Posted by Crespel View Post
I'm using RAID 0 for video Data on a 20TB partition currently. I had no breakdown at all since years now. The video data could be restored from camera media if there is a crash. But that never happened until today.
I COULD make my 20TB to RAID 0 and technically, all the RAW footage is backed up by the clients but in case of a crash, I would have to contact MANY clients (over 40) and ask each one to bring the footage again. This would be a huge hassle for them and me. Not worth the risk.

I am getting a 2TB (even 1TB would be enough) of M.2 nvme. I would copy some RAW footage of projects to the M.2 for editing and delete the RAW footage from them when I'm finished. So my 20TB BAY doesn't even have to be RAID.

Since M.2 is 25 faster than HDD - it would be much faster than even a RAID 0 of HDDs.
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Old 12-26-2017, 03:18 PM   #12
Ron Evans
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From years ago when hard drives were small and not very fast I arranged to have OS on one drive, all temp files on another that did nothing else, at least two other drives so that files would come from one drive and go to another. That is, the drive did not have to read and write to itself. At least that was the intent not always possible. I still follow that approach even with SSD's and I think it does make a difference since seek times are critical for encoding where SSD's are much faster than hard drives, even RAID's. Looking at activity with Moos systems I can see that on my system the CPU is the bottleneck almost all the time followed by seek times including the SSD's when encoding. Throughput is not an issue even on the hard drives since my source files are either mp4 or XAVC-S its the CPU that takes the load. I can take 4 tracks from one hard drive and it is never the bottleneck even when one of the tracks is UHD 150Mbps from the GH5. I tend to export HQX to a 1T SSD from the timeline and encode from there back to the hard drive for DVD and Bluray files so only the 1T SSD and 500G SSD are involved in longer encodes. On pure hard drives the DVD encode for a 2 hour show used to take almost 5 hours 2 pass VBR around 4Mbps for the 2 hour show on my old 2600K and now is about realtime.
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:25 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by zvit View Post
I am getting a 2TB (even 1TB would be enough) of M.2 nvme. I would copy some RAW footage of projects to the M.2 for editing and delete the RAW footage from them when I'm finished. So my 20TB BAY doesn't even have to be RAID.

Since M.2 is 25 faster than HDD - it would be much faster than even a RAID 0 of HDDs.
As you can see from my Specs I have a 1TB M.2 too - it is used only for System- and Application-SW. In my case a triple boot Win 10 1709 System.
This design gives the optimum troughput for 4K editing.
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Triple boot:Win10/Win10/Win10/I7-5930K/GTX780/1TB SW RAID:1000MB Read-Write/15TB Video RAID:650MB Read-Write/Intel X550
Triple boot:Win7/Win10/Win10/I7-6950X/GTX1080/SW:M.2 5300MB Read-2100MB Write/15TB Video RAID:850MB Read-Write/BMD 4K Extreme
both on: 10Gbps Media sharing Network, 10Gbps NAS
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:02 PM   #14
Long John Silver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Looking at activity with Moos systems I can see that on my system the CPU is the bottleneck almost all the time followed by seek times including the SSD's when encoding. Throughput is not an issue even on the hard drives since my source files are either mp4 or XAVC-S its the CPU that takes the load. I can take 4 tracks from one hard drive and it is never the bottleneck even when one of the tracks is UHD 150Mbps from the GH5. I tend to export HQX to a 1T SSD from the timeline and encode from there back to the hard drive for DVD and Bluray files so only the 1T SSD and 500G SSD are involved in longer encodes. On pure hard drives the DVD encode for a 2 hour show used to take almost 5 hours 2 pass VBR around 4Mbps for the 2 hour show on my old 2600K and now is about realtime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zvit
I am getting a 2TB (even 1TB would be enough) of M.2 nvme. I would copy some RAW footage of projects to the M.2 for editing and delete the RAW footage from them when I'm finished. So my 20TB BAY doesn't even have to be RAID.
Since M.2 is 25 faster than HDD - it would be much faster than even a RAID 0 of HDDs.
I resurrect this thread.

Given that even M.2 ssd are becoming so cheap. is it worth using RAID 0 as today?
I'm planning to buy a new machine and I was thinking if having something like this:

#1 Sata SSD for OS
#2 M.2 NVMe for temporary store projects and files
#3 Plain huge HDD for archive.

I would move everything I need on #2 for editing. Where is the bottleneck?
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long John Silver View Post
I resurrect this thread.

Given that even M.2 ssd are becoming so cheap. is it worth using RAID 0 as today?
I'm planning to buy a new machine and I was thinking if having something like this:

#1 Sata SSD for OS
#2 M.2 NVMe for temporary store projects and files
#3 Plain huge HDD for archive.

I would move everything I need on #2 for editing. Where is the bottleneck?
The bottleneck in terms of time/speed would be the move to/from the #3 HDD. The M.2 NVMe will perform a lot faster than a regular HDD.

The bottleneck in terms of space could possibly be the #2 M.2 NVMe if you have large projects or multiple projects active at the same time, as the cost per gigabyte is a lot less on a regular HDD and the possible capacities are also a lot larger on the regular HDD.

I personally still prefer a large RAID of normal HDD's, just simply to avoid moving a lot of data around, and since I am not working in 4K or higher, the speed benefit of the SSD/M.2 setups is not that beneficial to me. Ideally, if the budget allows, the RAID should be a RAID 5 or 6 for redundancy, but as you will see from my signature, my budget did not allow for it, so I do folder syncing to an external Mediasonic USB3 RAID5 as a backup.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:33 AM   #16
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The bottleneck in terms of time/speed would be the move to/from the #3 HDD. The M.2 NVMe will perform a lot faster than a regular HDD.

The bottleneck in terms of space could possibly be the #2 M.2 NVMe if you have large projects or multiple projects active at the same time, as the cost per gigabyte is a lot less on a regular HDD and the possible capacities are also a lot larger on the regular HDD.

I personally still prefer a large RAID of normal HDD's, just simply to avoid moving a lot of data around, and since I am not working in 4K or higher, the speed benefit of the SSD/M.2 setups is not that beneficial to me. Ideally, if the budget allows, the RAID should be a RAID 5 or 6 for redundancy, but as you will see from my signature, my budget did not allow for it, so I do folder syncing to an external Mediasonic USB3 RAID5 as a backup.
Thank you Bernie,
Very informative. I always read your posts.

I'll ask other questions on a proper thread.

Thanks
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:29 PM   #17
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Thank you Bernie,
Very informative. I always read your posts.

I'll ask other questions on a proper thread.

Thanks
You are quite welcome.

I am trained as an Electronics and Computer Technician. My father did audio/video production and I grew up "playing" with this stuff, ultimately going to work for a Pro A/V reseller for 14 or 15 years, where was building NLE/DAW systems, selling them, fixing them and training people to use them, when I wasn't working as a bench technician fixing electronics, before going on to work at my current day job as an in-house technician for a post production house when the Pro A/V company shut down. All the while dabbling in some event videography from home, and still trying to service the people that used to be my clients during my time working as a reseller, most of which I now consider friends, not clients, since there is no other local option for people here. That all adds up to about 25 years of dealing with these things professionally, not to mention my "play" time while growing up.

Unlike some people in this business, I am always happy to pass on any knowledge I have picked up over the years, and I still try to keep on top of things as best I can, but I have to admit, I am not always on top of the latest/greatest like I was when I was building/selling systems.
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