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Old 11-10-2008, 12:07 AM   #1
Philip
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Default V 5.? - Improved handling of mpeg files?

I saw it mentioned that V5 changed how mpg files (native HDV or m2t) files are handled. Does anyone actually edit m2t files and see an improvement? I'm talking about a real project and not simple cuts and repackaging of a video.

I normally convert to HQ for my big projects but I do same day edits at a few weddings each year and if I could edit m2t files easily I could start offering HD edits (if I can afford a HD projector). I played around with some native HDV files recently and they seemed to work much better than before meaning that even with multiple filters and some basic transitions they still scrubbed pretty well on the timeline where before in V 4.? the timeline would bog down and start choking.

I don't want to embark on a full project with native HDV files and then realize I shouldn't have...much less start a SDE and then not be able to do it because of m2t files. I know I could upconvert to HQ and edit that way even for same day edits but I was hoping to get a Solid State recorder or Direct to disk solution so I could speed things up a little and HQ is not an option at that point.

I still plan to edit my main projects with HQ but was curious what success others were having with m2t files right on the timeline. I was experimenting on my core2duo laptop which would be used for SDEs.
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:22 AM   #2
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Philp
Here is my experience with m2t files but not in EDius
There is little advantage as the whole project has to be rendered back to m2t once it is on the timeline. It is not like DV where unaltered clips should be just copied.
The m2t files only have a "Picture" "I" Frame every 15 frames so once you edit, or even add clips to the timeline the sequence is broken and the timeline has to be rendered back to m2t.
In Both Premier and Media Studio Pro, frames can be randomly added during the rendering, you will not notice it on a static scene but if it happens where there is movement the object will stop and then continue on.
I have been told the same occurs occasionally with FCP
Bring the file back into the program and the added frame can be deleted and then re rendered etc, etc, each re render reduces quality.
The fastest and best is in my opinion HQ files and with the new renderer in 5 it takes no longer, in fact I think it is faster.
You can occasionally see this when watching digital TV that has been recorded and edited, some put it down to interference, may be so but with interference there would be a stop and jump not a stop and then continue.
I have not tried editing in m2t as the results using HQ are just great
Hope this helps
Regards Barry
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:42 AM   #3
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Philip
I just did a test exporting a 2 min sequence from HQ to m2t file and it took 1 minute
I then brought that back into Edius cut it into 10 clips and rearranged them on the time line
Exporting to m2t took 17 secs, that is considerably faster, perhaps I give it a try on a longer sequence and see it the added frames appear
Regards Barry
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:25 PM   #4
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I am aware of the drawbacks of m2t and benefits of HQ. I am not looking to make this my normal workflow. What I am looking at is the viability of editing m2t when I do a same day edit for a wedding. I am talking about importing m2t files and doing a quick edit and showing the clip 4 hours after it was shot. I want to get a Firestore type device so I can import and edit quickly without importing from tape. I want to kick up my quality and also playback in HD. I can't do this capturing to HQ since it is still grabbing from tape. I just want to know if editing m2t is viable for more than quick cuts. In the past it would bog down but yesterday when I played with it things seemed much improved.

In your test with HQ to m2t...when playing with m2t files drop a few CC filters and a few other assorted things on them before rendering. That should slow things down a little. :-)
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_hd View Post
Exporting from HQ to HQ 2min clip will take no time :)
Modern PC with RAID will do it within about 5 seconds :)

Andrew
I know all that is fast with HQ and use HQ all the time. I have a few scenarios that I could do a better job on if I could edit easily in native HDV (m2t) files. I need to edit on site and have footage ready to play in a matter of hours. If I can use a Firestore type device and capture right to disc I can save anywhere from 30 minutes to one hour of my type normally needed for uploading clips. This means I can either get it completed quicker or do a more detailed higher quality edit. I don't know of a direct to capture device that captures to HQ so m2t is my only option for this.

I think I saw an increase in performance with m2t files in V5. I just am curious if anyone else has done any significant work with m2t files and was curious how it was working with V5. I don't want to decide to work with the m2t and halfway through realize I am totally screwed. I hope to give a small project a run through with m2t files but it may be a few weeks to a few months before that project is here. Just curious if anyone else is working with m2t.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip View Post
I know all that is fast with HQ and use HQ all the time. I have a few scenarios that I could do a better job on if I could edit easily in native HDV (m2t) files. I need to edit on site and have footage ready to play in a matter of hours. If I can use a Firestore type device and capture right to disc I can save anywhere from 30 minutes to one hour of my type normally needed for uploading clips. This means I can either get it completed quicker or do a more detailed higher quality edit. I don't know of a direct to capture device that captures to HQ so m2t is my only option for this.

I think I saw an increase in performance with m2t files in V5. I just am curious if anyone else has done any significant work with m2t files and was curious how it was working with V5. I don't want to decide to work with the m2t and halfway through realize I am totally screwed. I hope to give a small project a run through with m2t files but it may be a few weeks to a few months before that project is here. Just curious if anyone else is working with m2t.
Phillip,
I understand that you will have about 1.5-2.0 hours of video to deal with from possibly multiple cameras. The conversion process alone would take your time. Capturing onto the firestore and, if I am correct, editing on that same drive would be your work flow. If this is from just 1 camera you should have NO problem. Multiples will kill you. My question would be, does the firestore show up within Edius as a drive?

Try a 5 or 10minute test project. That way you will have an idea what you are getting into. If you are not using loads of layers of video, you should be able to do this. If you are running a fairly fast PC you should be able to export to a final file pretty quickly.
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:29 PM   #7
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Default HDV Editing

I tried this and it works fine:

Start new HD project and capture your files in HQ codec.
Now change the timeline property to SD 720x 576.
Do all you cuts/transitions and effects at this downsampled rate so you can largely preview and burn dvd to confirm your project works the way you want it to.
When your happy go back to the project settings and change back to 1440 x 1080 and then render back out as m2t.

For me it is the only way I can edit HDV without constantly rendering the overloaded areas to see the realtime effects like 3d picture in picture or slow motion.

Anybody else do this trick? or am i missing something?
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
I tried this and it works fine:

Start new HD project and capture your files in HQ codec.
Now change the timeline property to SD 720x 576.
Do all you cuts/transitions and effects at this downsampled rate so you can largely preview and burn dvd to confirm your project works the way you want it to.
When your happy go back to the project settings and change back to 1440 x 1080 and then render back out as m2t.

For me it is the only way I can edit HDV without constantly rendering the overloaded areas to see the realtime effects like 3d picture in picture or slow motion.

Anybody else do this trick? or am i missing something?
1) You don't need to start an HD project in order to capture HDV clips... you can do it directly from your SD project... it will be the same...
2) when you do all the work in an SD project and then switch to HD the 3D pips and titles are not scalled correctly so you have to scale them manually...
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:47 PM   #9
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Hea Phillip,
For SDE's our typical workflow is strictly SD. We edit and burn a play-only DVD from the timeline, typically in under 15 min. while I decompress.

We've used drives that record MS DV and capture from tape. Knowing we are projecting SD and working in SD guarantees 100% functionality start to finish.
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:06 PM   #10
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im finding the segment encode isnt working properly - it's still pixelating some sections when it kicks in - i have to render all mpeg stuff with seg enc turned off to rely on proper output
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