Grass Valley Forums Facebook   Twitter   YouTube  

Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Editors > Editing with EDIUS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-30-2012, 02:26 AM   #11
Red Union Films
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,029
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFreak_HD View Post
It is true that this thread is regarding BluRay (and related spec's) but often footage lands on a Media player and such as Edius is now capable of frame / project sizes less the a hundred pix the output is still very restricted in some ways me thinks ................
Hi Tony.

Yes the question was about Blu-ray, and my info and comments have been accurate as such.

Without going off topic. Edius is by far the most versatile NLE on the market with regard to frame rates, frame sizes, frame structure etc. It would be quite a tall order for any NLE to provide every option for every conceivable media playback system out there.

Going either way between 50P and 50I forces the issue of either loosing picture information, padding or duplicating picture information. None of these options are either good or should be done when you are able to play each in their original form.

The point being is that Edius does the best job of all the NLEs at handling and manipulating as I said before. It is designed for editing, and again, I think we should all really take stock of what an NLE is and what our realistic expectations should be.

Cheers.

Dave.
Red Union Films is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 02:30 AM   #12
SoundFreak_HD
Senior Member
 
SoundFreak_HD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Union Films View Post
Edius is by far the most versatile NLE on the market with regard to frame rates, frame sizes, frame structure etc.
Couldn't agree more, that's why I use it :)
__________________
Tony D.

EDIUS WG 9.52 / MATROX MXO2 LE / WIN10 Pro WS / LENOVO P71 Workstation laptop / XEON E3-1535M v6 / nVidia QUADRO P3000 6GB / Toshiba M.2 NVMe 512GB / Samsung 860 EVO 4TB / 32GB ECC RAM.

EDIUS WG 8.53
/ HDRX-E1 + HDBX-1000H / WIN10 Pro / DUAL XEON X5470 / SUPERMICRO X7DWA-N / SUPERMICRO SUPERCHASIS SC745TQ-920B / INTEL 520 SSD 240GB / WD CAVIAR BLACK 4TB (many) / 32GB ECC RAM / GTX 770 4GB / 2x MOTU 896HD.


wavearts / neatvideo / tmpgenc / hitfilm / imaginate
SoundFreak_HD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 02:38 AM   #13
GrassValley_PS
Moderator
 
GrassValley_PS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,822
Default

Agreed on all your points Dave. I was just trying to point out that most progressive formats cannot be changed to interlaced by simply switching the presets. That question must be answered at least twice a week here, so I was not restricting it to just was mentioned.
GrassValley_PS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 02:49 AM   #14
SoundFreak_HD
Senior Member
 
SoundFreak_HD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassValley_PS View Post
Agreed on all your points Dave. I was just trying to point out that most progressive formats cannot be changed to interlaced by simply switching the presets. That question must be answered at least twice a week here, so I was not restricting it to just was mentioned.
I fully agree that there are standards to follow and spec's are made for a reason, but I for one, due to be technically challenged in this topic would like some insight of why (even if it's OFF topic but still related)

When I use 1920x1080 50p source material, edit in 1920x1080 50i project, and assume it's possible to switch back to 1920x1080 50p for export, what information could I stand too loose or what could / would go wrong ?
__________________
Tony D.

EDIUS WG 9.52 / MATROX MXO2 LE / WIN10 Pro WS / LENOVO P71 Workstation laptop / XEON E3-1535M v6 / nVidia QUADRO P3000 6GB / Toshiba M.2 NVMe 512GB / Samsung 860 EVO 4TB / 32GB ECC RAM.

EDIUS WG 8.53
/ HDRX-E1 + HDBX-1000H / WIN10 Pro / DUAL XEON X5470 / SUPERMICRO X7DWA-N / SUPERMICRO SUPERCHASIS SC745TQ-920B / INTEL 520 SSD 240GB / WD CAVIAR BLACK 4TB (many) / 32GB ECC RAM / GTX 770 4GB / 2x MOTU 896HD.


wavearts / neatvideo / tmpgenc / hitfilm / imaginate
SoundFreak_HD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 03:24 AM   #15
antonsvideo
Senior Member
 
antonsvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22,428
Default

yes, sorry, some projects can be changed to interlaced

in my case, when shooting 50p, it can't be changed, which is fine with me also since I don't use the EDIUS Disk Burner
__________________
Anton Strauss
Antons Video Productions - Sydney

EDIUS 9 WG with Matrox MXO2, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro
antonsvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 04:08 AM   #16
SoundFreak_HD
Senior Member
 
SoundFreak_HD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonsvideo View Post
when shooting 50p, it can't be changed, which is fine with me also since I don't use the EDIUS Disk Burner
I also use 3rd party software to Author & Burn, still, I would like to export 50p from a 50i timeline for Media Playback purpose.
__________________
Tony D.

EDIUS WG 9.52 / MATROX MXO2 LE / WIN10 Pro WS / LENOVO P71 Workstation laptop / XEON E3-1535M v6 / nVidia QUADRO P3000 6GB / Toshiba M.2 NVMe 512GB / Samsung 860 EVO 4TB / 32GB ECC RAM.

EDIUS WG 8.53
/ HDRX-E1 + HDBX-1000H / WIN10 Pro / DUAL XEON X5470 / SUPERMICRO X7DWA-N / SUPERMICRO SUPERCHASIS SC745TQ-920B / INTEL 520 SSD 240GB / WD CAVIAR BLACK 4TB (many) / 32GB ECC RAM / GTX 770 4GB / 2x MOTU 896HD.


wavearts / neatvideo / tmpgenc / hitfilm / imaginate
SoundFreak_HD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 04:11 AM   #17
SoundFreak_HD
Senior Member
 
SoundFreak_HD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonsvideo View Post
some projects can be changed to interlaced
There must be an (technical) explanation why some project's can change from p to i or vice verse and some not ?
__________________
Tony D.

EDIUS WG 9.52 / MATROX MXO2 LE / WIN10 Pro WS / LENOVO P71 Workstation laptop / XEON E3-1535M v6 / nVidia QUADRO P3000 6GB / Toshiba M.2 NVMe 512GB / Samsung 860 EVO 4TB / 32GB ECC RAM.

EDIUS WG 8.53
/ HDRX-E1 + HDBX-1000H / WIN10 Pro / DUAL XEON X5470 / SUPERMICRO X7DWA-N / SUPERMICRO SUPERCHASIS SC745TQ-920B / INTEL 520 SSD 240GB / WD CAVIAR BLACK 4TB (many) / 32GB ECC RAM / GTX 770 4GB / 2x MOTU 896HD.


wavearts / neatvideo / tmpgenc / hitfilm / imaginate
SoundFreak_HD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 10:24 AM   #18
NakedEye
Senior Member
 
NakedEye's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Union Films View Post
Hi Tony.

Yes the question was about Blu-ray, and my info and comments have been accurate as such.

Without going off topic. Edius is by far the most versatile NLE on the market with regard to frame rates, frame sizes, frame structure etc. It would be quite a tall order for any NLE to provide every option for every conceivable media playback system out there.

Going either way between 50P and 50I forces the issue of either loosing picture information, padding or duplicating picture information. None of these options are either good or should be done when you are able to play each in their original form.

The point being is that Edius does the best job of all the NLEs at handling and manipulating as I said before. It is designed for editing, and again, I think we should all really take stock of what an NLE is and what our realistic expectations should be.

Cheers.

Dave.
Whilst I agree with most of what you say Dave I do disagree with regards to 50P and 59.94P as these frame rates fit neatly into their interlaced counterparts 50i and 59.94i. And when going to HD SD 50i, 59.94i from HD 50P 59.94P it makes for a very clean motion precise conversion. For 25P to 50i etc where the same P frame is is used for both upper and lower fields ie duplicating.... which is fine.....when shot correctly.

IMHO Edius handles mixed formats on the timeline very well and could easily handle 50/59.94P to respective 50/59.94i without any effort at all and this would be very useful for both BD and DVD from these progressive sources.

Best
Dave.
__________________
Main Editor - Edius 8.53 AdobeCC Mini Monitor 4K Intel X99P SLI Intel Core i7 6800K CPU Gigabyte GTX980 SanDisk Ultra Video SSD 1XINTEL System SSD 16GB Kingston DDR4 2400 RAM VisTitle 2.8 Onboard Sound 10GBE LAN WIN10Pro 64bit

Encoding - Gigabyte Z97X Gaming GT Intel 4790K CPU Gigabyte GTX550Ti Gigabyte GTX980 Western Digital HDD's LG Blu-ray drive, 16GB Kingston DDR3 1600 RAM BMD Mini Monitor 4K Edius 8.53 Creative Cloud Win 10 64bit Pro
www.nakedeyedv.com
NakedEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 01:04 PM   #19
Red Union Films
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,029
Default

Hi Dave.

50p going to 50i, may look ok with regard to motion, but you are losing information in the process. The two examples that I gave before, that Edius can do p to i no problem. Where examples for BD and DVD, where the interlacing process effectively does not lose resolution from the progressive source. I will assume that Edius does this because the base frequencies multiply or divide without losing effective resolutution, and the end result is feeding a global standards output. Anything beyond this would require user intervention to decide what they would accept as the the impact to temporal resolutions etc.

My opinion is that Edius does a great job of not allowing you to change certain aspects of project, once started. That may alter the standard of the project away from it's start. This does not mean to say anyone will agree with me, bit it does feel to me that GV are trying their best to help people stay within proper standards relevant to the project/content type at the start of a project.

Hi Tony.

Pat I hope you mind me butting in. 50p to 50i will lose information, 50i to 50p will pad out information one way or another at 1080. They do not directly divide or multiply to give the same effective line resolution. It's each to their own, but I can't see the advantage of starting a 50p project then editing and adding content at 50i then changing back to 50p for export. If you are shooting at 50p you should be editing at 50p, to do it properly. If any interlaced material needs to be added, then process it and add it to the 50p project. Any interlaced or lower resolution versions should really be generated from the 50p master when completed. My suggestions are only based on what's best for proper recognised commercial formats.

With regard to the whole 50P and 50I thing, Chef from South Park puts it very well. "Pig and Elephant DNA just won't splice" :)

Cheers.

Dave.
Red Union Films is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2012, 11:11 PM   #20
NakedEye
Senior Member
 
NakedEye's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,571
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Union Films View Post
Hi Dave.

50p going to 50i, may look ok with regard to motion, but you are losing information in the process. The two examples that I gave before, that Edius can do p to i no problem. Where examples for BD and DVD, where the interlacing process effectively does not lose resolution from the progressive source. I will assume that Edius does this because the base frequencies multiply or divide without losing effective resolutution, and the end result is feeding a global standards output. Anything beyond this would require user intervention to decide what they would accept as the the impact to temporal resolutions etc.

My opinion is that Edius does a great job of not allowing you to change certain aspects of project, once started. That may alter the standard of the project away from it's start. This does not mean to say anyone will agree with me, bit it does feel to me that GV are trying their best to help people stay within proper standards relevant to the project/content type at the start of a project.

Hi Tony.

Pat I hope you mind me butting in. 50p to 50i will lose information, 50i to 50p will pad out information one way or another at 1080. They do not directly divide or multiply to give the same effective line resolution. It's each to their own, but I can't see the advantage of starting a 50p project then editing and adding content at 50i then changing back to 50p for export. If you are shooting at 50p you should be editing at 50p, to do it properly. If any interlaced material needs to be added, then process it and add it to the 50p project. Any interlaced or lower resolution versions should really be generated from the 50p master when completed. My suggestions are only based on what's best for proper recognised commercial formats.

With regard to the whole 50P and 50I thing, Chef from South Park puts it very well. "Pig and Elephant DNA just won't splice" :)

Cheers.

Dave.
Dave it is simple 50P to 50i... p frame 1 to i field "a" and p frame 2 to i field "b" yes each field will be half resolution either odd or even scan lines but that is how interlacing works. Its the same for your 25p to 50i... p frame 1 to i field "a" and p frame 1 again to i field "b"... so on PAL interlaced displays both are showing at half resolution. 50P matches 50i material perfectly from a frequency point of view just that one shows a full frame for 1 50th of a second and the other shows a half frame (odd or even scan lines) every 50th of a second so perfectly divisible. No interpolation or frame blending.

I agree when you say why would you want to go from 50i to 50p as this does not make sense. The reality is that most folk want to achieve a disk output for their 1080 25/50/59.94 progressive material in the case of 25p there is no Blu-ray or DVD output available as these frame rates are not supported by the respective formats so to output to these mediums one only has the option of a 50i pathway. The same could be said for 50p which at 1080 Blu-ray or PAL DVD is not supported so again 50i is a logical option to get output on these mediums. Most folk experimenting with 1080/50p are stuck with a 50i Blu-ray option for disc output hence the reason Tony wants to go to 50i for disc output and back for final master. Of course final master would be to 50p.

Edius as always was first to support 50P/59.94P at 1080 and I am sure an option at some point in the future for 50P/59.94P to their interlaced project equivalents will happen as it would make good sense and still keep things compliant from a standards point of view. Edius does exactly this when importing a 50p asset into a 50i project. I can only surmise that because 1080/50/59.94p was relativly new to Edius and cameras were also new to market and not yet main stream is the only reason Edius does not currently have the p/ i switching for these formats... however the exact same reasoning applies with regards to 25p to 50i you would only switch for disc output you would still switch back for final master at 25p.

FWIW we shoot a lot of content at 720/50p and this format makes for beautiful Blu-ray and DVD.

Best
Dave.
__________________
Main Editor - Edius 8.53 AdobeCC Mini Monitor 4K Intel X99P SLI Intel Core i7 6800K CPU Gigabyte GTX980 SanDisk Ultra Video SSD 1XINTEL System SSD 16GB Kingston DDR4 2400 RAM VisTitle 2.8 Onboard Sound 10GBE LAN WIN10Pro 64bit

Encoding - Gigabyte Z97X Gaming GT Intel 4790K CPU Gigabyte GTX550Ti Gigabyte GTX980 Western Digital HDD's LG Blu-ray drive, 16GB Kingston DDR3 1600 RAM BMD Mini Monitor 4K Edius 8.53 Creative Cloud Win 10 64bit Pro
www.nakedeyedv.com
NakedEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
 
Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Editors > Editing with EDIUS
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Burning Blu Ray Files hermannn17 Editing with EDIUS 3 02-20-2010 08:48 PM
Burning a Blu Ray in 5.1 swsw1550 Editing with EDIUS 30 05-03-2009 01:05 PM
1080 25p Setting for Blu-ray Edipus Rex ProCoder 4 06-27-2008 11:09 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:34 PM.


Copyright 2014 Belden Inc. All rights reserved.