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Old 08-30-2018, 11:39 PM   #1
jeff8
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Default 23.98 question

I was reading a post from yesterday where a member had 23.98 footage mixed with 29.97 footage and needed the final output to be 29.97i. A member suggested to place the 23.98 and 29.97 footage into a 23.98 timeline and to export it as 23.98 over 59.94i 2:3 pulldown. The member had great success with it.
My question is if one has 23.98 footage and needs to send it to a tv station that needs it to be 29.97p would one place the 23.98 footage on a 23.98 timeline and export it as 23.98 over 59.94i 2:3:3:2 pulldown to get a 29.97p file?
Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:23 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by jeff8 View Post
I was reading a post from yesterday where a member had 23.98 footage mixed with 29.97 footage and needed the final output to be 29.97i. A member suggested to place the 23.98 and 29.97 footage into a 23.98 timeline and to export it as 23.98 over 59.94i 2:3 pulldown. The member had great success with it.
My question is if one has 23.98 footage and needs to send it to a tv station that needs it to be 29.97p would one place the 23.98 footage on a 23.98 timeline and export it as 23.98 over 59.94i 2:3:3:2 pulldown to get a 29.97p file?
Thanks in advance.
I gave the workflow suggestion yesterday. It involved exporting the 23.98 from a 23.98 timeline with the 23.98 over 59.94i with 2:3 pulldown setting to get a proper soft telecine, and then using those files on a 29.97i/59.94i timeline for the edit.

The 2:3:3:2 pulldown pattern still gives interlaced footage, but this pattern (a.k.a. advanced pulldown) was designed as an alternate pattern to make editing telecine footage in a non-telecine aware software less strict about what frame to cut on without breaking the telecine cadence and therefore making reverse telecine impossible. Realistically though is is hardly ever used. It may even get rejected by a QC department.

I have never encounterd a broadcaster here in North America that wanted 29.97p. NTSC broadcast is 29.97i.

There is no direct conversion pulldown pattern to go from 23.98 to 29.97p as pulldown relies on the nature of interlaced video to work. I would suggest that you confirm with the broadcaster about the 29.97p requirement, and if you do indeed need to deliver 29.97p, try the suggestion I made about using Handbrake at a placebo quality setting to de-interlace the master 29.97i that you export from Edius and if the results are acceptable, you can than convert that file into whatever codec you need to deliver in.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:33 AM   #3
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Hi BernH,
I have attached a spec sheet from a local tv station here in California. How can one shoot 23.98 and still upload 1080p 29.97 file?
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:51 AM   #4
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Hi BernH,
I have attached a spec sheet from a local tv station here in California. How can one shoot 23.98 and still upload 1080p 29.97 file?
Technically it is impossible if you wish to do proper framerate conversion, unless you de-interlace the final output.

Based on that spec sheet, I would surmise that they are only calling for 1080p because they are calling for an H.264 codec. Many H.264 encoders default to progressive and some can't even be forced into interlaced.

I have a local TV station here that published the same spec for TVC deliveries.

The first time I had a client bring me this spec, I thought "this is rubbish", the only way to get this is to de-interlace, which technically degrades the footage from the original, only to have it broadcast interlaced, but with the de-interlace done up front, it will never get back to what it was originally.

I happen to be fairly well acquainted with the station's assistant technical manager, so I called him up and queried him on it. He said they do this to keep the file sizes down for internet submission, and since it was for 30sec spots they really didn't care if they were full quality. That said though, he said that their preferred format was actually ProRes422 29.97i, so that's what he got from me. The fact that only a Mac can natively create the ProRes file also factored into their specifications.

I should also add that if you have all 23.98 footage, do the edit in 23.98 and do the pulldown conversion at the end. That way you won't break the telecine 2:3 pattern in the edit. Then do the de-interlace step on that 29.97i master (for this I suggested Handbrake since it has several de-interlce options to choose from), and then package that de-interlaced file into the MOV container.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:59 AM   #5
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Thank you BernH for your reply.
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:55 AM   #6
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My question is if one has 23.98 footage and needs to send it to a tv station that needs it to be 29.97p...
Thanks in advance.
You might want to check that again. If it is here in the U.S. going to broadcast, I am sure they want 29.97i not p.
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Old 08-31-2018, 03:59 PM   #7
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You might want to check that again. If it is here in the U.S. going to broadcast, I am sure they want 29.97i not p.
My point exactly when I said north american broatcast is 29.97i, However, I'd say they are doing a similr thing to the local broadcaster I mentioned.
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