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Old 12-03-2008, 05:35 AM   #11
Ron Evans
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khoi Pham View Post
You must have never update firmware on your PS3, they fix that long ago, and you can also turn off the upscale feature.
I have the latest firmware 2.53 on my PS3 and yes I am aware that I can turn off the upscaler but the PS3 will always send progressive over the HDMI connection at 1080p or 480P for SD DVD's( at least I have not found a way of making it do anything else. 480i isn't even on the list. The display capability choices are 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p. Which will thus have the PS3 deinterlace to what is indicated as 480P ( I assume 30P) this is what I find annoying not the upscaling. Even find this annoying on some of the Bluray discs I have!!! The Panasonic plasma with component input from the normal DVD player deinterlaces in a slightly more pleasing manner ( still not as good as the JVC i'Art or Sony HiScan CRT's). I just find it easier to leave the PS3 with HDMI connection and play SD DVD's through the component connection. I guess I will have to buy myself one of the newer 120hz displays that interpolate to get a smoother image from the interlace input, I am sure some of the problem I feel is inherent to the technology of the flat panel progressive displays unless I shoot at 720P60!!!.

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Old 12-03-2008, 06:19 AM   #12
Khoi Pham
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Don't know why you are having problem but I use HQV Benchmark test disc, the most gueling test disc for deinterlaced device and other and PS3 passed all of them, it did not when it first came out and it failed badly deinterlacing but that was fix long ago like I said, all of my interlaced dvd looks great on it, I also had some material shot on JVC HD 100 30P and it looks great too, are you running PS3 to TV or are you going through a receiver? some receiver does not have 1080P pass through and it could screw something up.
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Old 12-03-2008, 03:57 PM   #13
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My PS3 is directly connected to my Panasonic 42" 1080P Plasma over HDMI. The issue I have is I really don't like 30P which is what PS3 and most deinterlacers convert to. The Panasonic does just a slightly better job of deinterlacing in my opinion but the picture is still poor compared to watching the same DVD on a CRT. I have several concert Bluray that show the same problem of juddering again played back from the PS3 over HDMI. Deinterlacing the 60 frames per second interlace image to 30P will always lead to motion artifacts( half the frames are missing even if they are only half the vertical resolution). Newer LCD like the LG's interpolate in an attempt to create a 120 fps image flow. IF the PS3 interpolated to 1080P60 I would be happy!!!!

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Old 12-04-2008, 12:16 AM   #14
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The 120 Hz refresh doesn't really help 30 or 60p stuff. It's really for the 24p film stuff as 120/24 = 5, so each original frame is held for 5 frames, versus 60/24 = 2.5, and you can't show half a frame, hence you get judder.

Now if we could get a 600 Hz refresh, we'd be have smooth 24p, 25p, 25i, 30p, 30i, 50p, 50i, 60p and 60i! But I suspect we'd need an technology breakthrough to keep those chips cool.

Anyway... steering back toward topic, I think we've established that the FireCoder Blu streams are OK with PS3...
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Old 12-04-2008, 12:43 AM   #15
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That is not how the LG rep explained it to me. The LG uses two processors to interpolate the extra full progressive frames from any of the input types. Just like the old line doublers used to do. Interpolate the missing lines for each of the interlaced fields so that one would get 60 frames per second progressive from a 60i input. The 120hz refresh uses interfield interpolation to improve the process. Yes you are correct when 24P is detected it provides repeated frames to emulate the flicker of a 5 blade shutter on a film projector. All the 120hz LCD are not the same. Some just display black frames between real frames that are a simple deinterlacing. Some use simple deinterlacing then interpolate the extra frames etc... Which is which is a mystery to me at the moment and I am not sure who to believe about what they actually use compared to the marketing info!!!!! They don't all repeat the frames though or the marketing info and reps from Sony, Samsung and LG to name a few are wrong.

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Old 12-04-2008, 01:08 AM   #16
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Now that I think back a bit, I recall the Samsung model I was looking at had a couple of different options for the 120Hz mode, so there's likely some kind of additional processing.

The thing with interpolation processing is, you can never get it 100% correct all the time. There will always be some cases where it just goes wrong. Even DScaler (which has a ton of interpolation modes) still can't always pick the right one.

Also, the more processing there is in the display, the greater the delay from signal in to display out. After a while it becomes a real issue with audio/video sync. That's why some companies have introduced audio delay processors for digital environments. My DVDO scaler has an adjustable audio delay, though it automatically delays the audio to compensate for its processing as long it has access to the audio.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:43 AM   #17
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In a way this is the big problem with progressive displays. There is always interpolation or scaling of some kind with almost any input signal that inevitably leads to some form of artifacts that may be more significant to some more than others depending on the type of video that is being watched. I have been a Sony user for most of my cameras since leaving Super8 film but I am seriously thinking of moving to 720P60 to get the smooth motion that I want on a flat panel display. 30P just doesn't do it for closeups of dance or sports like skiing and sailing after seeing the same displayed on a CRT. I am going to investigate further the LG's to see if they will satisfy me but this is a technology problem with progressive displays unless they display a true 60P source, they leave out half the motion from an interlaced video, SD or HD.

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