Grass Valley Forums Facebook   Twitter   YouTube  

Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Editors > EDIUS: Compatible Hardware and Accessories

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-08-2018, 10:18 PM   #1
sixofone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Oxford
Posts: 2
Default Grass Valley VHS capture card history ?

Hello,

My impression is the peak of of VHS capture has come and gone, given that quality time base correctors seem to be on the used market now, and we are increasingly in a 4K world and beyond. Is there such thing as a chart listing the capture card history for Grass Valley ? I go on Ebay and see names like Raptor and DVStorm, but am usnsure of which is best. I don't mind hunting on Ebay and retrospecing a PC build just to install a GV card if necessary. I did test Edius once some years ago, but wasn't able to buy at the time. Are these cards only valid with Edius ? Can I still buy a used dongle Edius somewhere to keep away from online ? My own TBC has S-Video in/out and SDI out too but no audio options, so I was wondering about any steps to keep audio in sync..

Many thanks for any help or advice.
sixofone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 12:36 AM   #2
antonsvideo
Senior Member
 
antonsvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22,198
Default

you need the following
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...specs/W-DLK-12

it has analog audio inputs, so you can connect SDI from your TBC and audio via RCA direct from VHS player
__________________
Anton Strauss
Antons Video Productions - Sydney

EDIUS 9 WG with Matrox MXO2, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 870 Pro NVMe M.2 for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro
antonsvideo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2018, 03:01 PM   #3
sixofone
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Oxford
Posts: 2
Default

Thank you Anton, I will definitely take you up on your kind suggestion if I have to buy the BM card.

In general for the future, does anyone know if the BM DeckLink Studio 4K has the component colour bug I read about the Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K ? Also, would having a TBC in the chain cause a frame or two of audio delay ? Does anyone have any experience of taking audio phono red and white cables and converting them to professional XLR (I understand there is also the consideration of unbalanced to balanced) ? I ask because I think somewhere I have a Kona 3 card + box which I picked up for only 10 but it doesn't take phono audio in.

This is more curiousity at this point, I am grateful to Anton for solving the problem.

:)
sixofone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 03:26 AM   #4
Jim N
Senior Member
 
Jim N's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 434
Default

Just to clarify, does this card have faulty analog video capture levels if you wish to use them?

regards

Jim
Jim N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 04:08 AM   #5
BernH
Senior Member
 
BernH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 1,535
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixofone View Post
Thank you Anton, I will definitely take you up on your kind suggestion if I have to buy the BM card.

In general for the future, does anyone know if the BM DeckLink Studio 4K has the component colour bug I read about the Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K ? Also, would having a TBC in the chain cause a frame or two of audio delay ? Does anyone have any experience of taking audio phono red and white cables and converting them to professional XLR (I understand there is also the consideration of unbalanced to balanced) ? I ask because I think somewhere I have a Kona 3 card + box which I picked up for only 10 but it doesn't take phono audio in.

This is more curiousity at this point, I am grateful to Anton for solving the problem.

:)
An analog TBC will not introduce any delay. If the TBC is actually acting as a frame buffer and converting analog to Digital there will likely be a delay, but most units that can do this conversion will also handle the audio so that the delay is avoided.

As far as i am aware, the only BM card that has the video level issue is the IP4K.

Conversion of consumer audio on RCA connectors to XLR connectors can be done, but there is about a 14dB difference in the levels (consumer is -10dBu, Pro is +4dBu) In order to match levels you need some kind of amplification like a matchbox (https://henryeng.com/matchbox-hd/), a kramer 482xl (https://www.kramerav.com/ca/Product/482xl) or eve a little audio mixer that you can use to make up the gain. (the matchbox or kramer 482xl are probably the better options though, as they have a fixed gain structure to match levels). These will convert levels and the balanced/unbalanced conversion. The little boxes are bi-directional, so they work consumer to pro or pro to consumer

Balancing is not a big deal if the cables are short, unless the particular circuits in the hardware are very sensitive to impedence mismatches. Balanced/unbalanced conversion for short cable runs where impedence is not an issue, can be done by simply connecting pin 1 to pin 3 in the xlr connector, or the ring to the sleeve in a 1/4"trs. This simply makes sure that the appropriate signal is on the correct balanced contacts and unbalance contacts. It does nothing for impedence matching or gain amplification or reduction, and you will need to make up gain in the consumer to pro direction and reduce gain or pad the signal in the pro to consumer direction. The matchbox, 482xl or mixer will look after all of these other issues too.

***EDIT***

I have just attached a simple XLR to RCA pinout diagram. This shows two wires going from XLR Pin 1 and Pin 3 to the RCA shield, but since RCA connectors are usually pretty tight inside, it's easier to use the cable shield to connect XLR Pin 1 to the RCA shield and make a jumper insider the XLR between Pin 1 and Pin 3 as I mentioned above. I just though adding a pinout diagram would be easier for people to see what I am talking about.

Also here is a link to a page that gives instructions on building level pads right inside an XLR connector or tube, just in case anyone is interested or in need.

http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/

One additional point to add. Sometimes connecting the RCA shield to Pin 3 via a wire and leaving the cable shield floating at the RCA end, but connected to Pin 1 in the XLR can help to eliminate a ground loop, but it does make the cable a bit more susceptible to RF and EMF interference.
Attached Images
File Type: gif XLR-RCA.gif (2.8 KB, 6 views)
__________________
Edius WG 9.51.5619, various 3rd party plugins, VisTitle 2.8.0.5, Win 7 Ultimate SP1, i7-4790K @ 4GHz with HD4600 GPU embedded, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard, 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, nVidia GTX680 4GB GPU, Matrox MX02 Mini MAX, Corsair 750W PSU, Corsair H110i GT Water Cooler, Corsair C70 case, 4TB Internal RAID 0/stripe (2x2TB Seagate SATAIII HDD's, Win7 Software RAID 0/stripe), 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD, Pioneer BDR-207D, Dual 1920x1080 monitors (one on GTX680 and one on Intel HD4600).

Last edited by BernH; 12-12-2018 at 04:16 AM.
BernH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 04:19 AM   #6
antonsvideo
Senior Member
 
antonsvideo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22,198
Default

the BM card does not suffer level issues when you use the SDI from your TBC and rca audio is fine because the BM will capture it correctly with correct levels
__________________
Anton Strauss
Antons Video Productions - Sydney

EDIUS 9 WG with Matrox MXO2, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 870 Pro NVMe M.2 for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro
antonsvideo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 08:31 AM   #7
Liverpool TV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Liverpool, England.
Posts: 2,898
Default

Hi Saied.

Don't worry about the audio. Using unbalanced or balanced on a short run won't make any difference and you won't gain anything as far as quality is concerned, one way or the other. Assuming your levels are correct.

Using XLR doesn't necessarily mean that it's balanced, as Bern has explained. In practice, a passive cable going between -10 and +4 will usually be all that's needed, again as Bern has explained.

Maybe try a passive option first, it's the cheapest.

The only real gain to a balanced signal path is for long cable runs or maybe in high RFI/EMI environments, where the phase cancellation nature of a balanced system will help reduce EMI/RFI issues if induced in the cable.

As for an interface, try and find a second hand HDBX1000 if your compuetr's motherboard has PCI, 32 Bit or 64 Bit. Mine still works under E8.5, it may still work under E9. I've had a number of Canopus/GV interfaces over the years and the 1000 is the best in my opinion. Although I don't use mine much these days as I'm mostly file based and at best only need a simple HDMI output. If I ever need any kind of analogue input, there's nothing better than the 1000.

http://www.graphics-vision.com/edius_sd.pdf

https://youtu.be/EB0O0TmuQ3M




Cheers,
Dave.
__________________
"There's only one thing more powerful than knowledge. The free sharing of it"

If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?
Liverpool TV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 04:24 PM   #8
dpalomaki
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,888
Default

The peak interest in capture of analog video from VHS has passed, as evidenced by many vendors dropping most of their analog capture products. It tends to be dominated by cheap, low quality consumer stuff these days. Further finding VHS players in good condition is becoming more of a challenge as well. Current gear and vendors are focused on HD and beyond with SD being more of an afterthought if supported at all.

You can find used ADVC 55, 110, 300, etc. on the market if you want to work in DV file format (however not best format for serious restoration). The BM Intensity Pro works reasonably well. The IP4K is not good for capturing component video, but HDMI, S-VIDEO and Composite appear to be OK if you have a good signal. A good TBC is essential for many VCR outputs but not all available on the market these days are good.

FWIW: I've used a Videonics MX-series video mixer as a TBC for some analog capture in the past.

If you are serious about SD analog video capture and restoration you might want to visit
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/
That site focuses on affordable tools and methods for analog capture, and tends to dwell heavily on achieving restoration. It also discusses use of legacy gear for achieving best results with SD video.
dpalomaki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2018, 05:54 PM   #9
DigitalDave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Basildon UK
Posts: 2,318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
The peak interest in capture of analog video from VHS has passed,
NOT in the domestic transfer to DVD or USB. Cine might have dropped off but still ran 3000ft before lunch.

As with cine, the requirement for transfer from domestic analogue sources, be they VHS/VHS-C or Video 8/Hi8 will still be around in 20 years.
DigitalDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
 
Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Editors > EDIUS: Compatible Hardware and Accessories
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grass valley Andrew Editing with EDIUS 5 03-18-2011 01:25 AM
Grass Valley Canopus Pegasus Capture Card Seraphic FIRECODER Blu & Pegasus 20 02-12-2009 02:59 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:37 AM.


Copyright 2014 Belden Inc. All rights reserved.