Grass Valley Forums Facebook   Twitter   YouTube  

Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Editors > Editing with EDIUS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2019, 07:10 PM   #1
Hitecrd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 23
Default Varing Frame Rates

I'm working with a number of mp4 files which have varying frame rates. Most of the time I'm editing mp4 files that are 1920x1080px29.97, but lately the frame rates have been 29.96, 29.93, 26.??, 29.96, 30.01, 30.07 etc.. While all of these play fine using Windows media player, they don't play well (stutter) nor convert properly to avi files or DVDs in Edius. Even if you render a section of the timeline, the playback is not smooth. Edius has always worked fine when editing other supported frame rates (i.e. 23.98 or 59.94) but not these weird ones. The frame rates that I mentioned here are determined by Windows/Properties/Device or properties from within Edius. I'm wondering if the actual frame rate is not what is being reported.

If you put one of these weird frame rate mp4 files on the timeline (see project specs below), when there's a scene change it appears to "jump" or ghosting can be seen. If there's a lot of motion during a scene and the scene contains text (i.e. stationary credits) the text appears to jump up and down as the scene is playing. It's not smooth like it would be if the frame rate matched the project frame rate.

The source of all these files are from a [cheap] HDMI video recorder (Hauppauge HD PVR) which records all source material as 1920x1080p regardless of whether it's SD or HD (720p or 1080p). I'm guessing the frame rate is determined by the HDMI signal, but the device specs says it's supposed to be 29.97.

For whatever reason, the documentaries that I'm recording are being created with all different frame rates. I've used different recorders and splitters that remove HDCP but they do not seem to be the cause. Even when doing straight recordings of non-copy protected material (direct from the devices HDMI output), the frame rates seem to vary. The Frame height and width seem to remain constant (1920x1080).

Right now my workaround has been to use a 3rd party video converter tool (DVDFab 11) which corrects this problem by outputting then as 29.97, but sometimes changes the frame height and width. Depending on the mp4 frame rate, the resultant video can be as much as 6 seconds ahead of the audio - not a consistent solution. Will/can Edius support user defined frame rates?

The Edius 9.50.5351 project properties are:

Frame Size: 1920 x 1080; Frame Rate: 29.97; Aspect Ratio: 1.0000; Field order: Progressive; Video Channels: YCbCr + Alpha; Bit Depth: 8Bit; Color Space: BT.709; Stereoscopic Editing: Disable; Audio Sampling Rate: 48000Hz; Bit Depth: 24 Bit; Channel: 8; Setup Render format Grass Valley HQ Standard; Over Scan Size: 0 %; Audio Reference Level: -12.0dB; Resampling method Lanczos 3 (Hi-Quality); HDR/SDR gain: Disable; Tone mapping: Disable

Thank You,
Charlie

System is: Dell Inspiron 13-5378 Laptop x64 Intel; 8 GB Ram; Windows 10 Pro 10.0.18362 Build 18362;

Last edited by Hitecrd; 10-07-2019 at 10:49 PM.
Hitecrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 12:40 AM   #2
BernH
Senior Member
 
BernH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 1,496
Default

Edius supports standard frame rates. These oddball ones you are seeing are not standard framerates.

You may be able to force a 29.97 framerate on the clips in the bin before putting them on the timeline. (I have no variable framerate stuff to confirm if this will fix the problem, but it's a quick thing to test for someone like you that has the problem media)

Alternately you can continue to convert them as you have been doing, but you might be able to get a more reliable A/V sync using a different converter. Maybe Handbrake, XMedia Recode, Hybrid, or something similar will give more reliable results.
__________________
Edius WG 9.50.5351, various 3rd party plugins, VisTitle 2.8.0.5, Win 7 Ultimate SP1, i7-4790K @ 4GHz with HD4600 GPU embedded, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard, 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, nVidia GTX680 4GB GPU, Matrox MX02 Mini MAX, Corsair 750W PSU, Corsair H110i GT Water Cooler, Corsair C70 case, 4TB Internal RAID 0/stripe (2x2TB Seagate SATAIII HDD's, Win7 Software RAID 0/stripe), 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD, Pioneer BDR-207D, Dual 1920x1080 monitors (one on GTX680 and one on Intel HD4600).

Last edited by BernH; 10-08-2019 at 05:34 AM.
BernH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 04:56 AM   #3
ulyssesvideo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: sydney
Posts: 383
Default

are these clips from mobile phones??

I think from memory....
before you place the clip on the timeline change the frame rate to what u want. with will effect audio to a point.
or as BernH has suggested re-encode the clips to the the correct frame rate using handbrake or hybrid video convertor.
ulyssesvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 07:17 AM   #4
DigitalDave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Basildon UK
Posts: 2,302
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulyssesvideo View Post
are these clips from mobile phones??
Read the o/p which quite clearly states the source.
DigitalDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 02:43 PM   #5
Hitecrd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 23
Default

These clips are from an inexpensive HDMI capture device that is attached to my Sony Blu-Ray player, FireStick and Cable Box via a 3-port switch. The programs are not copy protected or copyrighted.

The only specs that I have on the HDPVR Rocket is:

H.264 AVCHD high definition video encoder up to 1080p30 from HDMI or component video. I'm only using the HDMI connection. It records to mp4 format but is capable of recording to TS and M2TS when connected to a computer, but Edius doesn't recognize these. Also, MP4 is the standalone file type when not connected via USB to a computer, which is how I do my captures.

I had assumed that it always recorded in 1920x1080p at 29.97 because for over a year I have never seen it create files with any other specs. It's only lately that I'm seeing these weird frame rates. I never knew that frame rates could vary and why all of a sudden.

If Windows Media Player can play these weird frame rate files perfectly, why can't Edius is my first question? My second question is how to get these weird frame rate files to be used in Edius without any Video/Audio Sync problems.

I have noticed that those that have frame rates of 29.96, 29.98, 29.99, 30.0, 30.01 and 30.07 all show up in Edius as 29.97. Nothing to change and they appear to play fine. Those that are 29.93 and 26.xx are the ones that have issues.

There may also be an issue with my Laptop in that when I put a 1080p file on the timeline it stutters when being played, even if it's 29.97, but creates perfect avi files and DVDs. I'm guessing the cause of that is the performance capabilities of my laptop and not Edius.
Hitecrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 06:24 PM   #6
ulyssesvideo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: sydney
Posts: 383
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDave View Post
Read the o/p which quite clearly states the source.
opps!.......lol
ulyssesvideo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 06:50 PM   #7
johnsirb
Senior Member
 
johnsirb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Amherst,OH
Posts: 327
Default

wondering if some sort of frame sync would straighten that out (a time base corrector for us old dudes LOL )
__________________
John Sirb
Lake Breeze Video Lorain,OH
--------------------
SYS 1: Edius 9, Vistitle 2.5, Boris Red,Neat Video, Gigabyte Z170x G5, I7 6700K 4.0Mz Skylake, G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB x2, NVIDIA QUARTO 2000



JVC HM-100,JVC HM-700, JVC HM-600, Canon 80D
johnsirb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 11:31 PM   #8
BernH
Senior Member
 
BernH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 1,496
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitecrd View Post
If Windows Media Player can play these weird frame rate files perfectly, why can't Edius is my first question? My second question is how to get these weird frame rate files to be used in Edius without any Video/Audio Sync problems.
Media Player, like most "players" is not an editor and doesn't really care about framerates, just that it can stream the file. Editors do care about framerates for the purposes of timing and cut accuracy. Edius is not the only editor to have problems with odd framerates or variable framerate files.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitecrd View Post
I have noticed that those that have frame rates of 29.96, 29.98, 29.99, 30.0, 30.01 and 30.07 all show up in Edius as 29.97. Nothing to change and they appear to play fine. Those that are 29.93 and 26.xx are the ones that have issues.
Without having a file to inspect and test with, I can only speculate that the ones causing the most trouble are too far out of tolerance for Edius to deal with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitecrd View Post
There may also be an issue with my Laptop in that when I put a 1080p file on the timeline it stutters when being played, even if it's 29.97, but creates perfect avi files and DVDs. I'm guessing the cause of that is the performance capabilities of my laptop and not Edius.
Once again, without knowing anything about your hardware or files, I can only speculate that it is the hardware/laptop that can't decode the files fast enough. If you can enable QuickSync on the laptop and enable it in the edius decode settings, decode may be better.
__________________
Edius WG 9.50.5351, various 3rd party plugins, VisTitle 2.8.0.5, Win 7 Ultimate SP1, i7-4790K @ 4GHz with HD4600 GPU embedded, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard, 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, nVidia GTX680 4GB GPU, Matrox MX02 Mini MAX, Corsair 750W PSU, Corsair H110i GT Water Cooler, Corsair C70 case, 4TB Internal RAID 0/stripe (2x2TB Seagate SATAIII HDD's, Win7 Software RAID 0/stripe), 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD, Pioneer BDR-207D, Dual 1920x1080 monitors (one on GTX680 and one on Intel HD4600).
BernH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 11:41 PM   #9
johnsirb
Senior Member
 
johnsirb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Amherst,OH
Posts: 327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitecrd View Post

Right now my workaround has been to use a 3rd party video converter tool (DVDFab 11) which corrects this problem by outputting then as 29.97, but sometimes changes the frame height and width.
Thank You,
Charlie

System is: Dell Inspiron 13-5378 Laptop x64 Intel; 8 GB Ram; Windows 10 Pro 10.0.18362 Build 18362;
the part of the convertor changing the frame size seems odd. that should be locked.

Have you tried something like handbrake or TMPGEnc video mastering?
__________________
John Sirb
Lake Breeze Video Lorain,OH
--------------------
SYS 1: Edius 9, Vistitle 2.5, Boris Red,Neat Video, Gigabyte Z170x G5, I7 6700K 4.0Mz Skylake, G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB x2, NVIDIA QUARTO 2000



JVC HM-100,JVC HM-700, JVC HM-600, Canon 80D
johnsirb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2019, 11:51 PM   #10
Liverpool TV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Liverpool, England.
Posts: 2,898
Default

This may help.

https://youtu.be/qfYgz6kVM9s

__________________
"There's only one thing more powerful than knowledge. The free sharing of it"

If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?
Liverpool TV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
 
Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Editors > Editing with EDIUS
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Frame Rates Drbgaijin Editing with EDIUS 4 10-28-2016 03:38 PM
Special frame sizes and frame rates for new projects/sequences Richy Editing with EDIUS 3 04-29-2009 08:34 PM
Frame rates rando Editing with EDIUS 4 03-17-2009 08:56 PM
Frame Rates Mark Von Lanken Editing with EDIUS 7 02-10-2009 06:46 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:25 PM.


Copyright 2014 Belden Inc. All rights reserved.