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Old 06-22-2015, 10:02 PM   #1
DaveL
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Default ADVC 300 audio sync problem

I'm using ADVC 300 to capture (via Edius 7) old analog Hi8 tapes.

The problem is that in long captures, the audio will often (maybe 60%) get out of sync, and I have no idea why. The sync is off maybe half second in 10-15 minutes. The tapes and images are in reasonably good shape. I've verified capture is 48K audio throughout. I know the 300 is supposed to lock audio, so I'm stumped. My only workaround is to capture in short segments, but that is impraticle.

Another point, I also have an ADVC 50 (yes, a 50, not 55) which NEVER had this problem. It recently died however, so I'm attempting to do these long captures with the 300, but have encountered this sync issue.

Does anyone have input/advice/suggestions.

Thanks in advance
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New to Edius - came from Liquid, before that 16mm film. I've been filmmaking since watching ST TOS first-run live on B&W TV
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Old 06-23-2015, 01:00 PM   #2
strange
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I use DVCapture utility that came with Edius 4.6. It works nicely with ADVC 300 always. DVCapture is not included strating with Edius Version 6 though.

Try a different capture utility temporarily, to exclude impact of unintended possible software configuration changes.
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1st System: Edius 8.53 & Neat Video 3.5, TMPGEnc VMW5 & AW4, ASUS P9X79, Core i7-3930K, Intel SSD 330 180GB, GeForce GTX 570, Corsair Graphite 600T Mid-Tower, Sony Optiarc AD-7280S, 16GB RAM, 12TB , Canopus ADVC-300,

2nd System: Edius 8.53, HP ZBook 17 G3, i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz, 16GB RAM, 512Gb SSD, 1 TB HDD.



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Old 06-23-2015, 06:53 PM   #3
dpalomaki
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Locked audio is a DIP switch setting, check it.

Is the audio leading or lagging? I've see some captures where there are gaps in the audio, sometime caused by a behavior in the PC.

What IEEE port are you using?
Are you using the Win 7 legacy IEEE 1394 driver?
Are you capturing to USB, network, or other external storage?
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:28 AM   #4
DaveL
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Thanks for input:
* I'll try to use different capture software (I used to use scenalyzer, but doesn't seem to work with W7), I'll report.
* I'll check on sound lead/lag & report
* I've verified the sync lock audio DIP switch.
* My MB doesn't have 1394 port, using PCI card w/ OHCI firewire.
* Using generic W7 OHCI driver.
* I'm capturing to internal RAID10 4TB drive - I don't think it's throughput

Any other thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks
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Edius 9.40.4803 Pro, Intel i7-5820K 3.3GHz, MSI X99s SLI plus MB, 32GB DDR4 mem, Nividia GTX 760, Win10 Pro x64
New to Edius - came from Liquid, before that 16mm film. I've been filmmaking since watching ST TOS first-run live on B&W TV
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:15 AM   #5
strange
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May be worth installing legacy driver? Although I mostly capture under Windows XP, whenever there is a need to set up capture under Windows 7, I use Anton's routine:
http://www.videoproductions.com.au/h...re-driver.html
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1st System: Edius 8.53 & Neat Video 3.5, TMPGEnc VMW5 & AW4, ASUS P9X79, Core i7-3930K, Intel SSD 330 180GB, GeForce GTX 570, Corsair Graphite 600T Mid-Tower, Sony Optiarc AD-7280S, 16GB RAM, 12TB , Canopus ADVC-300,

2nd System: Edius 8.53, HP ZBook 17 G3, i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz, 16GB RAM, 512Gb SSD, 1 TB HDD.



Cameras:
JVC GY-HM100E, Nikon D750, Sony RX10
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:23 PM   #6
dpalomaki
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FWIW: some IEEE1394 chip sets are reported to be more problematic than others. Cards based on the TI chip set appear to be most reliable.

Have you tried capture from a DV or Digital-8 camcorder to see if that audio holds sync?

Is the sync loss uniform over time, or does it cumulative appear in jumps. Sounds like you are seeing about 1 frame per minute sync loss.

What hardware and software are you using for playback of the captured files?

If Edius, does the audio for the cut appear longer on the timeline, or truncate at the end?
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Old 06-26-2015, 05:10 PM   #7
DaveL
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I've tried several of the suggestions (thank you for those).
While looking at these captures for some hours now, I think I have a pattern that I'd appreciate any comments/thoughts about.

The ADVC300 seems to lose audio sync after a "hiccup' in the analog tape. The glitch could be an un-recorded segment, a "harsh" transistion from shot to shot where the heads may have not quite made the track sync signal perfectly smooth, etc.

When the above happens, the 300 gets "confused" and at that point the audio gets out of sync.
If the tape has near perfect shot transistions (which most are), the sync seems to stay OK.
The way to get sync back is to stop the analog VCR and restart just after the glitchy transition.

Different preview windows will either "keep going" through he glitch, or stop. If they keep going through the glitch, the audio will be out of sync therafter.

Edius capture will stop at most of these glitches, which is sort of a blessing as it alarms me that audio sync was probably also lost so I know where to start up again.

For the folks with more experience with the 300 - Does this make sense? Will the 300 loose sync after a gltichy transition?

Thanks.
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Edius 9.40.4803 Pro, Intel i7-5820K 3.3GHz, MSI X99s SLI plus MB, 32GB DDR4 mem, Nividia GTX 760, Win10 Pro x64
New to Edius - came from Liquid, before that 16mm film. I've been filmmaking since watching ST TOS first-run live on B&W TV
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Old 06-27-2015, 04:23 PM   #8
dpalomaki
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Makes perfect sense. Anomalies in the tape playback can throw off the timing of the video signal, moving it outside the ability of the ADVC to properly process. One common way these appear in the captured audio is as a brief gap, typically one frame or field at each anomaly. On the 1-farme resolution time line the audio looks like a gap. These accumulate causing sync loss, and depending on the audio content might be heard as an occasional "tick" or 'click" in the audio.

In general, the solution to reliable capture of old analog tape is to include a TBC in the chain. This should ab full frame TBC. While some analog tape players players include some TBC features (typically line TBC only) it usually is not sufficient.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:39 PM   #9
strange
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Hm .... never experienced any sync problems be it Hi8 or any other analogue format ... May be because the bonus utility coming with Edius earlier versions I've mentioned before totally ignores the time code coming from any external device. It simply starts where it starts grabs everything & generates its own code for display on the screen ..... Yes occasional frame skipping may still be there depending on the capture device and quality or the tape but no cumulative delay.
__________________

1st System: Edius 8.53 & Neat Video 3.5, TMPGEnc VMW5 & AW4, ASUS P9X79, Core i7-3930K, Intel SSD 330 180GB, GeForce GTX 570, Corsair Graphite 600T Mid-Tower, Sony Optiarc AD-7280S, 16GB RAM, 12TB , Canopus ADVC-300,

2nd System: Edius 8.53, HP ZBook 17 G3, i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz, 16GB RAM, 512Gb SSD, 1 TB HDD.



Cameras:
JVC GY-HM100E, Nikon D750, Sony RX10
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:22 PM   #10
dpalomaki
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My experience is that it depends greatly on the source, both the tape and the player. Some VCR's do much better than others.
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