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Old 03-16-2008, 08:28 PM   #31
Martin_Gleeson
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Hello All,

I use a couple of Canon XH A1's, and thanks to help from Khoi Pham and some of my own tweaking, I've been getting some very nice HD results. But as has been stated here, it's still very much an SD world. And I have never been totally happy with the SD results.

The method of down conversion described in this thread has been posted here before, but no one has ever explained it as well as Mark has in the opening post of this thread. Much appreciated.

A couple of questions:

1. I presume this has come to light mainly because of the EX-1 issues people are having with downconverting using Edius/Procoder?

2. I tried this method before and even though it removes the "stepping" (aliasing?) effects and most artifacts, it results in a much softer picture that doing a straight convert from Edius HD timeline (Canopus HQ files) to an SD MPEG2 file using PC3. Have others noticed this?

Please note, I'm taking about XH A1 footage, which would be less detailed than EX-1 footage. Also, my original method using Virtual Dub may have been flawed.

3. And my most important question (i.e. Where did I go wrong):
My method was to simply use Virtual Dub to create a very large uncompressed SD file from a Canopus HD HQ file (using method Lanczos3/Interlaced). So Virtual Dub did the downsizing.

I presume that the method described by Mark here would result in the same quality SD files as setting up a frame server?

If this would help me get better quality SD files, I certainly want to re-visit it.

Many thanks.
Martin
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Last edited by Martin_Gleeson; 03-16-2008 at 09:23 PM. Reason: Correct typing mistakes
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:36 AM   #32
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Martin
I have tried downsizing with VD only but as you found it was still wanting
Using the method described by Mark there has been a distinct quality increase and I would say it is as good as what I have achieved in the past from my FX1 but without the artifacts so it is worth trying.
One problem could occur as I found if you have loaded PC3 update 3.05 the process will not work, I had to go back to 3.0 or all I got was black video.
I first overcame it by
using VD on my laptop opening the AVI over the LAN,
File serving to VFAPIConvert on the laptop
Loading Procoder 3.0 on the laptop and accessing the frame served avi, all on the laptop
Saving the file back over the LAN to my main Editing computer
Have since gone back to PC 3.0 on my main computer and it works well
Have found you can also use Procoder Express with Excellent results and you do not have to worry about the PCoder version
Hope this helps
Regards Barry
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:21 AM   #33
Martin_Gleeson
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Thanks Barry, that's exactly what I wanted to hear!

Cheers
Martin
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:12 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msvideo View Post
Let me know how you get on. Any comments or suggestions to tweak the procedure welcome.
Thanks much for this, works great in eliminating twitter etc from sharp Sony V1E progressive footage when down converted using just Procoder on it's own.

The only downside I find is that due to having to manually start frame serving from inside VirtualDub with only a single Canopus HQ video file open, seems there is no longer any way to do batch encoding?

Just wondering if there is any way around this especially since it is possible to open multiple instances of VirtualDub.
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Old 03-22-2008, 12:53 AM   #35
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Thanks for that Claire
That effectively eliminates interlacing as the problem and has something to do with the encoder and pixel shifting as the Boris 1:2:1 pull down for eliminating shimmer on scrolling text also eliminates the problem but will not handle a full 24 min program, just locks up
Regards Barry
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GB GA-X58A-UD3R MB, i7 990X@4G, 12G 1600mhz Mem, Samsung EVO-250G SSD, 3x2T RAID, GTX 970W OC, 2x24 inch LG Monitors
Canon XH-A1/ Canon HF-G30, GoPro Hero3 Black, Edit @1920 50p HQ preset

https://vimeo.com/user2157719/videos
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Old 03-23-2008, 01:52 AM   #36
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Just managed to get around to trying this. It works wonderfully! Absolutely exceptional compared to PC3 downsize alone. Thanks so much Mark.

Martin
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Old 04-26-2008, 09:17 PM   #37
Khoi Pham
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Just to add to this thread, I have found that using bilinear resize filter is much better than Lanczos3 or any of the bicubic type, they all add too much edge enhancement, you see a a very pronounce halo on the edge of your subject or object, these filters are great for upscale, since we are downscaling from HD, bilenear to me is much more pleaseant picture to look at. Gives it a try.

Last edited by Khoi Pham; 04-26-2008 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 04-30-2008, 02:43 PM   #38
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I finally got the virtual dub solution to artifacts to work when down converting all except for the aspect ratio. My final product is 4x3 DVD and it looks squished. I wonder were I am going wrong?

I still think that Edious/GV is missing the boat with this one. I don't think it will go away anytime soon. If they could solve it from within Edius they would be ahead of the rest of the NLE editing platforms.


Thanks

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Old 04-30-2008, 03:11 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msvideo View Post
27. Change the aspect ratio to 16:9 for widescreen
Point 27 referer to Procoder "Source" settings. Procoder wont automatically detect widescreen or correct interlacing on the frameserve file. You have to manually select widescreen on the Source settings and also select Upper field first manually.

Naturally widescreen must also be selected on the Procoder Target preset.
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Old 05-02-2008, 12:33 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msvideo View Post
Point 27 referer to Procoder "Source" settings. Procoder wont automatically detect widescreen or correct interlacing on the frameserve file. You have to manually select widescreen on the Source settings and also select Upper field first manually.

Naturally widescreen must also be selected on the Procoder Target preset.
Sorry to be so dumb Martin... but my end product is 4x3 DVD. I think that my problem is in the procoder step. (27) I thought that the Virtual DUB step would convert 16x9 to 4x3.

In Procoder I am changing the source file to 4x3 upper field and the target file to 4x3 upper field. what happens is my video is squished. However, if I set the procoder to 16x9 and the target to 16x9 it looks like the correct aspect ratio. I am missing something here..... Should I be setting the source file in Procoder to 16x9 and the target file to 4x3?

Thanks
Ronnie
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