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Old 02-24-2020, 12:15 AM   #1
DMS Video
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Default What is the best format I can export with 7.42?

I have a partially completed film I edited in 7.42 that will be finished in some version of Final Cut Pro by a different Editor. What is the best quality export codec I can use, with my older version of the software, that FCP will recognize. I wanted to try DVCPro HD but even though it shows it as an option apparently it isn't even there (if that makes any sense).
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Laptop - Edius 7.42 / Intel Core i7 4960X Extreme Edition Desktop / 3.6GHz/4.0GHZ / 32GB Hyper-X Quad Channel 1600MHz Ram / Nvidia GeForce GTX-880 w/ 8GB of GDDR5 Video Memory / (3) 1TB SATA-3 V-NAND SSD / Windows 8.1 64-bit
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Old 02-24-2020, 12:42 AM   #2
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That is not an easy question to answer, and it depends on if the FCPX user is willing to install some 3rd party codecs and Quicktime 7 if he/she doesn't already have it since the codec packs are QT7 plugins, and if he/she has insisted on upgrading the the latest version of OSX and FCPX.

Since Edius is Windows based and FCPX is Mac based, Edius versions prior to recent V9 builds can't natively generate ProRes, and FCPX can't natively read HQX or DNxHD. If they are willing to install Quicktime 7, they could install the Edius codec pack or the Avid codec pack and you could use HQX or DNxHD to go between the systems. (Personally I think the GV HQX codecs are better than Avid's DNxHD, but I would lean toward DNxHD in this case, simply because the Edius Mac codec pack has not been updated in about 6 years, and there may be some compatability issues with OSX versions after 10.7 - Lion if I have my versions correct.)

This all assumes that the used is not on the latest OSX version. The latest OSX (Catalina) has completely stripped out all 32 bit code compatibility from what I have read. This means any codec that is 32bit may not be able to be used. I know from one of the FCP X users at the office, he can't generate 32 bit codec based files like DNxHD, but I don't know if he can read them.
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Old 02-24-2020, 01:09 AM   #3
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Thanks. I appreciate your detailed answer. This is getting more complicated than I anticipated. What about this... is there a way I can export my film to some type of format that an older version of FCP might be able to transcode into something that would work for the other Editor to then edit with? The higher the quality the better. I know nothing about FCP.
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Old 02-24-2020, 01:47 AM   #4
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the simplest solution is to upgrade to EDIUS9 and you can then export direct to Prores which is perfect for FCPX
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Old 02-24-2020, 02:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMS Video View Post
Thanks. I appreciate your detailed answer. This is getting more complicated than I anticipated. What about this... is there a way I can export my film to some type of format that an older version of FCP might be able to transcode into something that would work for the other Editor to then edit with? The higher the quality the better. I know nothing about FCP.
I work for a film and video post production house and deal with this kind of thing on a daily basis. Trust me when I say this can get a lot more complicated yet.

FCPX, being an Apple product loves ProRes files, but can work with a lot of different codecs if the the system has the codecs installed. There is a way to produce Prores on a PC without the newer Edius builds (not apple certified), using ffmpeg, Xmedia Recode, Cine Martin, or the no longer available Miraizon codec pack. This route only works if you are looking to send a "master movie" to FCPX for titling, or maybe some colour correction, but will not work if you plant tweak edit points in FCPX. Also be warned that files generated by the ffmpeg, Xmedia and Cine Martin route (both Xmedia and Cine Martin use ffmpeg under the hood) have a tendency to drive apple compressor crazy, and introduce frame judder/jumps if using it to transcode them again, or at least it used to the last time I tried it a few years ago.

If you are only doing an HD finish and want to transfer/preserve a timeline into FCP, the free version of Davinci Resolve can take a linked aaf from Edius and export an FCP XML file while also transcoding media into a format FCPX can read such as DNxHD MOV files. If going higher than HD, the paid version of Resolve would be required.

Higher/Highest quality doesn't really mean a lot unless the context is known. What is the resolution and codec of your source files? What resolution are you hoping to finish at? Are you looking to export a master file for FCPX as mentioned above, or are you wanting to export a timeline with the edits visible for rework in FCPX? For a single master movie it woud be easiest with Edius 7 to export an HQX file from Edius and then pass that through Xmedia Recode to make a Prores.

Regarding quality, for example, and please excuse the exaggeration, if you are working with MP4 videos downloaded from youtube that were encoded as 720p H264 4:2:0 2Mbps, you will never make them better than that and that format FCPX will handle so why convert to a "higher quality" that is really no better? However, if your source files are equal to or higher in resolution and/or colour depth than your desired finish, then the questions become more relevant, and you may wish to use a higher resolution, higher colour bit depth, or even full range RGB colour instead of YUV, and a less compressed file to make manipulation easier and more accurate.

So, to try to answer without getting further into the nitty gritty, the best file type for FCPX as far as FCPX is concerned, is Apple ProRes MOV files, using a compression and resolution setting appropriate to retain your source quality. Assuming you have not used the youtube video example I mentioned above, I would normally not go below ProRes 422HQ for an HD master (regular ProRes 422 is considered broadcast quality) and would prefer the 4444XQ version for 4K (while not ideal, you can use older 422 and 4444 variants for 4K, but the XQ variant was actually designed for 4K not HD and SD like the older variants)

If you can't use ProRes, Avid DNxHD/HR in an MOV file would be the next best option (the HR variant is Avid's 4K version), assuming you and the FCPX person have the codec pack installed. The FCPX machine would also need the Avid codecs and QT7 installed. If your version of edius supports it, exporting DNxHD files in an MXF wrapper may also work (if I recall correctly, you needed 7 pro to export MXF), but MOV should work regardless.

And as mentioned before, the age of the GV codec pack is my main reason for not recommending that route, although, the lack of a 4:4:4 variant is also a bit of a concern when talking about higher end cinema style colour work.

Here is a link to the FCPX supported file types, the DNxHD/HR info page, and a link to the ProRes whitepaper for reference. between the three, you should be able to determine the best Prores or DNxHD/HR variant for your source files if you go that route, and other file types if you don't go ProRes or DNxHD/HR.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guid...er2833f855/mac
https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/...hite_Paper.pdf
https://www.avid.com/products/avid-h...tion-workflows

As Anton said, simplest route is to upgrade. A 2 step process with Xmedia Recode as mentioned above, can achieve almost the same thing (Edius 9 is Prores certified, Xmedia is not), without having to pay for an upgrade, but neither of those options will work if you want to transfer the timeline for rework. Davinci is the easiest way to tackle that as I mentioned above, using it to translate an edius aaf into an FCP XML.
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Last edited by BernH; 02-24-2020 at 05:38 AM. Reason: fix typo
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Old 02-24-2020, 04:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antonsvideo View Post
the simplest solution is to upgrade to EDIUS9 and you can then export direct to Prores which is perfect for FCPX
I agree Anton... all in good time. Cheers
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DMS Films, New York


Laptop - Edius 7.42 / Intel Core i7 4960X Extreme Edition Desktop / 3.6GHz/4.0GHZ / 32GB Hyper-X Quad Channel 1600MHz Ram / Nvidia GeForce GTX-880 w/ 8GB of GDDR5 Video Memory / (3) 1TB SATA-3 V-NAND SSD / Windows 8.1 64-bit
Desktop - Edius 5.5 / Intel i7 975 Quad Core 3.33GHz / 12GB DDR3 1333MHz / Nvidia GeForce GTX-275 / Vis Title 1.1 / FireCoder-Blu / (2) 27" LCDs / JVC DT-V24L1U (24" 1080p) / Windows Vista 64 - www.EditHD.com
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Old 02-24-2020, 04:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernH View Post
I work for a film and video post production house and deal with this kind of thing on a daily basis. Trust me when I say this can get a lot more complicated yet.

FCPX, being an Apple product loves ProRes files, but can work with a lot of different codecs if the the system has the codecs installed. There is a way to produce Prores on a PC without the newer Edius builds (not apple certified), using ffmpeg, Xmedia Recode, Cine Martin, or the no longer available Miraizon codec pack. This route only works if you are looking to send a "master movie" to FCPX for titling, or maybe some colour correction, but will not work if you plant tweak edit points in FCPX. Also be warned that files generated by the ffmpeg, Xmedia and Cine Martin route (both Xmedia and Cine Martin use ffmpeg under the hood) have a tendency to drive apple compressor crazy, and introduce frame judder/jumps if using it to transcode them again, or at least it used to the last time I tried it a few years ago.

If you are only doing an HD finish and want to transfer/preserve a timeline into FCP, the free version of Davinci Resolve can take a linked aaf from Edius and export an FCP XML file while also transcoding media into a format FCPX can read such as DNxHD MOV files. If going higher than HD, the paid version of Resolve would be required.

Higher/Highest quality doesn't really mean a lot unless the context is known. What is the resolution and codec of your source files? What resolution are you hoping to finish at? Are you looking to export a master file for FCPX as mentioned above, or are you wanting to export a timeline with the edits visible for rework in FCPX? For a single master movie it woud be easiest with Edius 7 to export an HQX file from Edius and then pass that through Xmedia Recode to make a Prores.

Regarding qualiy, for example, and please excuse the exaggeration, if you are working with MP4 videos downloaded from youtube that were encoded as 720p H264 4:2:0 2Mbps, you will never make them better than that and that format FCPX will handle so why convert to a "higher quality" that is really no better? However, if your source files are equal to or higher in resolution and/or colour depth than your desired finish, then the questions become more relevant, and you may wish to use a higher resolution, higher colour bit depth, or even full range RGB colour instead of YUV, and a less cmpressed file to make manipulation easier and more accurate.

So, to try to answer without getting further into the nitty gritty, the best file type for FCPX as far as FCPX is concerned, is Apple ProRes MOV files, using a compression and resolution setting appropriate to retain your source quality. Assuming you have not used the youtube video example I mentioned above, I would normally not go below ProRes 422HQ for an HD master (regular ProRes 422 is considered broadcast quality) and would prefer the 4444XQ version for 4K (while not ideal, you can use older 422 and 4444 variants for 4K, but the XQ varient was actually designed for 4K not HD and SD like the older variants)

If you can't use ProRes, Avid DNxHD/HR in an MOV file would be the next best option (the HR variant is Avid's 4K version), assuming you and the FCPX person have the codec pack installed. The FCPX machine would also need the Avid codecs and QT7 installed. If your version of edius supports it, exporting DNxHD files in an MXF wrapper may also work (if I recall correctly, you needed 7 pro to export MXF), but MOV should work regardless.

And as mentioned before, the age of the GV codec pack is my main reason for not recommending that route, although, the lack of a 4:4:4 variant is also a bit of a concern when talking about higher end cinema style colour work.

Here is a link to the FCPX supported file types, the DNxHD/HR info page, and a link to the ProRes whitepaper for reference. between the three, you should be able to determine the best Prores or DNxHD/HR variant for your source files if you go that route, and other file types if you don't go ProRes or DNxHD/HR.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guid...er2833f855/mac
https://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/...hite_Paper.pdf
https://www.avid.com/products/avid-h...tion-workflows

As Anton said, simplest route is to upgrade. A 2 step process with Xmedia Recode as mentioned above, can achieve almost the same thing (Edius 9 is Prores certified, Xmedia is not), without having to pay for an upgrade, but neither of those options will work if you want to transfer the timeline for rework. Davinci is the easiest way to tackle that as I mentioned above, using it to translate an edius aaf into an FCP XML.
BernH that was such an in-depth and complex answer I may need to go stare at the wall for a while, lol. Seriously, that was a lot to digest but I already learned a lot. I'm obviously way overdue to upgrade (hopefully at some point soon). I think I'm going to contact "Editor 2" and print out your response so maybe he and I can resolve tonight's challenge. Thanks for taking the time to share your expertise. D
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DMS Films, New York


Laptop - Edius 7.42 / Intel Core i7 4960X Extreme Edition Desktop / 3.6GHz/4.0GHZ / 32GB Hyper-X Quad Channel 1600MHz Ram / Nvidia GeForce GTX-880 w/ 8GB of GDDR5 Video Memory / (3) 1TB SATA-3 V-NAND SSD / Windows 8.1 64-bit
Desktop - Edius 5.5 / Intel i7 975 Quad Core 3.33GHz / 12GB DDR3 1333MHz / Nvidia GeForce GTX-275 / Vis Title 1.1 / FireCoder-Blu / (2) 27" LCDs / JVC DT-V24L1U (24" 1080p) / Windows Vista 64 - www.EditHD.com
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:10 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by DMS Video View Post
I agree Anton... all in good time. Cheers
there has never been a better time then right now, you also get EDIUS 10 when released for free
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