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Old 03-08-2012, 06:23 PM   #1
Stephen Jay
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Default Feature Film with Canon 5d MkII footage (color problem)

Hi everyone.
I am nearly completed with a feature film shot entirely on Canon DSLR 5D MkII. The edit process is wonderful and Edius 6 cuts and plays the heavily compressed files realtime no problem. They are an H.264 in MOV wrapper and have a vibrant, rich color to them. Blacks are deep black, mirroring 10-bit video. A member here, Red Union Films, has assures me that it is 8-bit. I have no reason to doubt that.

The problem occurs in exiting Edius. This video becomes brighter, and shows up a noise where blacks have been lifted. And also the color has lost its life. I thought nothing of it the last two months because I was rendering low quality mpegs for the writer and director to review.

Now, I've been cutting video for 3 years in broadcast, the past year on E6, and I've never come across a shift in color like that. It's the relationship with Edius and the file, I'm sure.

I assume there might be something that Edius is not reincoding right. Because on the timeline the picture looks correct, with only a minor gain visible in the preview monitor, but not extreme like what is exported. It's not just the system at home, E6 at work with Win7 does the same thing. Color settings are locked in Super White.

Does anybody know what this is? Or ways to get correct color output? Is there something I've missed?

I have linked an upload of an original DSLR video and that same one after having gone through Edius 6. Also I have still captured of the preview monitor, one by Edius, the other with FRAPS. They are labeled appropriately. A Final Cut Pro user in house will be sending me his version of the clip which I will upload by saturday.

The files:
http://www.mediafire.com/?8i23ktc96e...bfixe4c477hwe3

I'm suprised nobody has encountered this yet. I don't want to loose any quality going to the color grader, OR, if graded in Edius, having the grade altered when exported.
Interested to see what happens.
-Stephen Jay
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:34 PM   #2
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what format are you exporting to - i do hope its not MOV
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattie View Post
what format are you exporting to - i do hope its not MOV
Most time we export from our 7D to MP4(H264) or WMV-HD. There we have no problems.

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Old 03-08-2012, 09:10 PM   #4
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Don't export to MOV as you have 99% chance that gamma/brightness will be broken.

You can use MOV with codec=NONE, which is RGB- this will be fine except 709/601 color space issue, but you may be fine with it.

Best thing (not fastest)- export to Canopus HQ and than encode to ProRes with ffmpeg/ffmbc.

You can also use latest Edius 3D beta which can properly export eg to AVID DNxHD codec in MOV.

btw... none of the Canon cameras video is 10bit including latest Canon motion camara- C300.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:34 AM   #5
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Thanks for responding.

No, I've exported HQ, HQX, mpeg2, MXF... they all print with this picture change. The h.264 edius file I uploaded looks no different, so its small size was ideal for upload.

So exporting to HQ just to ProRes would be redundant, not to mention multiple encodes, leaving with the same gamma result. And I'm not working on Mac.

X-trem production, do these files match what you're workflow results? What is your audience medium? (feature, web, dvd, television)

This movie will be shown in theaters. I won't use tricks or multiple re-incodes that degrade the quality.

Last edited by Stephen Jay; 03-09-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:13 PM   #6
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If you do not get the problem sorted here can I suggest that you pay a visit to the dvdoctor.net forum and post the problem there with a header that includes Edius.

One of the moderators there is a retired BBC techie and what he does not know about video, encoding, processing, etc can probably be written on the back of a postage stamp.

Be warned thought he is not a fan of video shot on a DSLR but he is a keen Edius 6 user.

Also have you set up your camera in accordance with Prolost's guideline?

It does make a considerable difference to the results, it certainly has with my 7D.

There are a few tutorials on youtube on how and what to do......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62wx5S0jHCk

This is just one that use the Prolost setting procedures

Good luck
 
Old 03-09-2012, 04:32 PM   #7
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For Digital Cinema... I tell my case, until now I have 3 productions (2K) with EDIUS 6, and for that I have always used the export codec "Canopus HQX (Superfine)" that changes in me for nothing the IRE or Color Space in editing and export... after that, I have this material 2K (Canopus HQX) + GV playback codec "Canopus HQX" for Windows (this utility you can download on the website of GV) with the aim of this with no problem reading in the third Laboratory accepting AVI and others files for conversion or creation in "DCP" which is the format used for digital projection in movie theaters, as this scheme:

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Old 03-09-2012, 06:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Jay View Post

The files:
http://www.mediafire.com/?8i23ktc96e...bfixe4c477hwe3

I'm suprised nobody has encountered this yet. I don't want to loose any quality going to the color grader, OR, if graded in Edius, having the grade altered when exported.
Interested to see what happens.
-Stephen Jay
Original MOV and your exported MP4 look the same in Edius 5- no black level difference.
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:03 PM   #9
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I knew I wasnt going crazy. Even the director who has FCP got a gamma shift, and felt the same worry.

And apparently we're not the only ones out there:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...d-Gamma-Shifts

It still astounds me that Edius will correct the dslr video in program to look correct but then export with a shift it never shows you, because every one of you who compared these files says it looks fine... in Edius. But it's not just Edius, its FCP, its Avid... apparently Adobe too, whatever version is gifted to read them.

It seems to be a relatively unnoticed issue. And I found some resources for anybody in the future using Canon DSLR footage. Google "dslr gamma shift," you'll get some sparse results. But people have definetly noticed it.

http://nofilmschool.com/2010/06/is-5...n-waiting-for/

An Adobe DSLR workflow video that the link sounded prommising but I didnt want to sit through the whole video for

Premire/Vegas discussion forum, 7th post down shows exactally what I'm getting. This whole thread is addressing it.

File specs that you technical wizzes will enjoy

I really havent had a chance to weed through all of this. We just went through review this weekend, I made all the changes and started printing before I left this morning for proofread. I've 6 days before locked and ship to digital, and imagine 3 more passes before it's stamped with grinns and giggles. That on top of testing ADR routes with Edius at my place before they call them actors in. They start ADR the day after lock and ship lol. They don't miss a beat.

I'm going to be too busy to be good for conversation right now, some freetime after work. I'll have about a month afterward to figure out the rendering while FX does their thing, so you'll all see me again in abundance in a week or so. I'd like to have this issue better understood. I do appreciate the help. Red Union Films has been very nice.

Caminosterio, thank you. I'll dig into all this after I'm done.

Col lamb, considering the vibrance of the images, I'm sure they did not set it up that way. That was the DP.

Stephen
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:46 PM   #10
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Edius does nothing wrong!
It's MAC problem and its different gamma!

I think there is some setting in FCP for adjusting gamma when video comes from a PC.

You exported and original file looks exactly the same in Edius 5- there is no problem with Edius.
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