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Old 01-01-2014, 01:47 PM   #31
swsw1550
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Yep, only the price difference, speed will be the same!

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Old 01-01-2014, 02:33 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
It still comes down to cost vs performance vs ego. It is hard for me to justify the cost of a 2tb SSD raid ( or even a 1tb raid) vs a 12tb mechanical raid. The entire cost of the 12tb mechanical raid is less than 1 of the 1tb drives in the 2tb SSD raid.
Besides, the 12tb raid will do speeds in excess of 500MB/s, which is excellent performance.

Since I moved to devices like this one, I have not had hard drive heat issues:
http://istarusa.com/drivecages/bpndefeature.php This has been for more than 10 years now.
Plus, I can remove an entire 4 drive raid and replace it with a new one in under 5 minutes.

The 4 drive 512tb example is more of an exercise in futility. I can fill that drive in one editing session. After that is full, you then have to transfer the contents to a storage drive. The speed advantage of the SSD raid is now reduced or lost with the 512gb transfer time to mechanical drive.


Would the average Edius user notice an editing difference between a 4 drive SSD 512gb raid and a 4 drive 12gb mechanical raid? I seriously doubt it. They would, however, notice the difference in their bank account.


If you have the money and want to have the 'bragging rights,' however short they may be, go for it. But, the cost vs the overall speed gain is nowhere in the ballpark of reasonable.
Hi Jerry.

You obviously don't use uncompressed at up to 4k. Once you start using even HD, in multiple uncompressed streams, and 3D for those into that. Then your otherwise very fast 500MB speed won't cut it.

On a well specified machine, even the Haswell that John is talking about. Edius and the system specification are able to work with multi stream uncompressed, at HD and higher. But this is not achievable at only 500MB speed.

My system is around 850, and it will not do certain things such as comps or dissolves over a multi track or sequence in sequence editing. As the storage space bandwidth is simply not there, although other elements of the system could handle it.

Ego and bragging rights, have nothing to do with building a system with an SSD raid, that can match the rest of the system and an Edius spec, and not be the bottle neck. Granted you are right about the cost factor, which is why I personally am looking at something modest that will work for my typical project sizes. But my HD raid cost around 5000 and even a faster but much smaller internal half terabyte SSD raid can be achieved for less than 300 using an onboard controller.

I am quite sure Steve would agree with this, as his drive system is over a massive 2000MB per second, and I doubt that he will find himself in many situations were his SSD raid is the bottleneck, even using 24 physical Xeon cores.

Oh yes. The futility of a half terabyte SSD you talk about. It is quite an assumption on your part to think that you know what the end user is going to do. Given that I had already said it was fine for my personal use, and the size recomendation to John was based on him already using 500gb of video space.

Remember, I am not telling anyone what to do, that is their decision. What I am doing though, is sharing my vast experience of both system building and my use of Edius. People can either take it or leave it, or apply some of my suggestions to their own personal scenario. It would also seem that I am the only person in this discussion that has actually built systems around what John is proposing, this is why I am trying to help.

Last edited by Liverpool TV; 01-01-2014 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:57 PM   #33
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What you may find is that buying 2 8GB sticks may be cheaper than buying 4x4Gb sticks, and will also leave you 2 slots free to upgrade later
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Old 01-01-2014, 03:11 PM   #34
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John.

I have just had a thought to the difference in memory frequency that you have seen between intel and asus.

What motherboard are you looking at?

I think the Haswell you are looking at is unlocked. If you put this on the right board, you can do over clocking. If you do over clock, then being able to tool about with memory frequency against CPU frequency and multipliers, would become an issue, and this is where higher frequency memory may help. This may be why you have seen the different specs.

I personally do not know much about over clocking, other than the first time I tried it many years ago, I wrecked a CPU, the motherboard, and the memory.

If you feel comfortable doing over clocking then the compnents I pointed you to before can do this. But I personally would recommend staying away from it. Yes, you can get very stable over clocked systems, but it is very expensive to cool properly and you are always pushing your compenets to a point where they are past their recomended tolerances and with very little to no head room.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:28 PM   #35
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Well at the moment I was going for the Asus Z87 Pro. I have used Asus motherboards in the past and like the BIOS and features.

Not sure if I will overclock the i7 4770K, but would like that option. It really depends on how happy I am with the overall response of the new PC. I do want it to be quiet as I do a lot of audio work with it (not Edius related).

So if it runs cool and quiet from the start, I might use the Asus facility to "auto tune" the system. I will be using a Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro cooler.

I have been reading about setting the BIOS to XMP all cores, which gives quite a boost I am told. This is not implemented in the BIOS as default although more expensive Asus motherboards do.

I think I need to do more reading to make a sensible choice of RAM type. The list that Asus produce for compatible memory is quite long.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hooper View Post
Well at the moment I was going for the Asus Z87 Pro. I have used Asus motherboards in the past and like the BIOS and features.

Not sure if I will overclock the i7 4770K, but would like that option. It really depends on how happy I am with the overall response of the new PC. I do want it to be quiet as I do a lot of audio work with it (not Edius related).

So if it runs cool and quiet from the start, I might use the Asus facility to "auto tune" the system. I will be using a Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro cooler.

I have been reading about setting the BIOS to XMP all cores, which gives quite a boost I am told. This is not implemented in the BIOS as default although more expensive Asus motherboards do.

I think I need to do more reading to make a sensible choice of RAM type. The list that Asus produce for compatible memory is quite long.
If you want the quietest system and reasonable cost, then using the system as standard will be the best route. With SSDs, even the basic build maybe good enough for you, as the standard CPU fan is not that noisy. You could even hold off from looking at additional quieter components, to see if the standard build suits you for noise use.

If you start over clocking, you will have a fair bit of messing about and may not get a 100 percent working system. Plus, you will have to over spend on all aspects of cooling, maybe even ram cooling. This will all add up.

I would recommend the standard clock speeds. At least this way, you will have a system built and loaded within an afternoon. It will be no different from anything that you will have done in the past. You won't be working out clock ratios etc. and trying to balance all that against what may or may not happen with windows and your software. Maybe use 2x8 for memory, it at least gives you the advantage of going 32 in the future, you never know what may be round the corner, maybe grading.

What you are looking at, as a standard clock build. Is a very nice system and really powerful, I doubt you will be disappointed. And if you can do all this without any extra costs for silent equipment, over clocking etc. You could put the saving into Edius 7, which may well be the best upgrade of the lot.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:49 PM   #37
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John, if you want to overclock, it is very simple. Granted, the Haswell will not overclock as well as the Ivybridge, and does run a little hotter, but you should be able to get it to 4.2 or 4.3 without issue.

I stopped using CPU fans about 3 years ago. I use the Corsair H80 or H80i sealed water cooling units on all 3 of my systems. These cost about $80 a install faster than a complicated radiator and fan combination CPU cooler. Plus, there isn't a weight issue pulling on the motherboard as with a massive radiator assembly. It is also very quiet. The system isn't any louder running at 4.4 than it is running at 3.5.

Newer motherboards have very easy overclocking controls. It is extremely simple and if you aren't trying for an exotic overclock, will be very stable. My overclock settings consisted of changing the multiplier and the rest was handled by the motherboard. You don't have to worry about settings.

I am running my 3770k at 4.4 and it is rock solid and cool. During quicksync encodes, the processor runs between 45c-50c. Normal is in the 39c to 40c.
The Sandybridge, Ivybridge, and Haswell chips are designed for easy overclcocking.

Build the system at stock speeds, and once you are happy with it, try one of the Asus profiles for overclocking. There are many failsafes in place now to prevent frying the chip.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:13 PM   #38
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Thank you for all your help.

I will be buying and building it in the next few weeks. I will let you know how I get on.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:53 PM   #39
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Thank you for all your help.

I will be buying and building it in the next few weeks. I will let you know how I get on.
Good luck with the build John, look forward to your results.

Whether you over clock or not, I am quite sure you are going to be really happy.

Just remember though. It's all about creativity and telling your stories, be it in audio and or video. Be careful to not get sucked into being a geek :) at the expense of your creative output.
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