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Old 03-18-2012, 04:32 PM   #1
Red Union Films
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Default Downloadable Edius and JVC 4k to 1080 test project.

Here is a copy of a PM that I sent to forum user. It explains the whole workflow for this test.

Here is another test project, this one is made direct from JVC's own footage. The master was made in an Edius 4K timeline, by stitching the quadrants back together using 4 video tracks and the layouter (a process that wont be needed when JVC release the proper transferring software, I hope?) The 4K master looked very impressive, although I don't have a 4K monitor. This was then saved as a HQX file for ease of use as a single 4K file, then the timeline was changed to 1080. To make the files easier to use for web download they are converted to h.264 using the Edius AVC exporter at a high bitrate.

Even though these files have been through some processing and been downscaled by Edius. I think the 1080 versions look very interesting. I have compared them to a few different types of 1080 camera files.Even after all the processing and re-encoding, the resolution stands up very well for a downscaled version of 1080. Considering that the nearest decent 1080 camera to it's price, Sony EX3, still costs way more. The JVC does look like it could be a winner. I will do a similar test when I can get hold of some native 1080 footage. The second file is just a quick process through Firstlight, to give it a more film like gamma. Anyway, see what you think.




http://www.mediafire.com/?031cfv0ubilbgaz
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:45 PM   #2
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JVC says on their website software will be MAC only- shame.
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:44 PM   #3
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Any idea how much dynamic range this toy... errr... sorry tech experiment is supposed to give?

I notice JVC do not even mention Dynamic range or latitude on their website (not that I could see).

I'm sure the technology WILL come but for now this is nothing more than a marketing gimmick to see how many units they can sell of something their R&D dept had dreamed up.

I would steer well clear until we are on 2nd or maybe 3rd generation. And... I STILL don't think that glass is going to be up to the task. Let's be honest, you would be paying 3 times and up of the cost of the camcorder for a decent piece of glass on a 4k camera.
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:57 PM   #4
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It's prosumer (or even towards consumer) camera- don't try to compare it to pro cameras.
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Biscuit View Post
Any idea how much dynamic range this toy... errr... sorry tech experiment is supposed to give?

I notice JVC do not even mention Dynamic range or latitude on their website (not that I could see).

I'm sure the technology WILL come but for now this is nothing more than a marketing gimmick to see how many units they can sell of something their R&D dept had dreamed up.

I would steer well clear until we are on 2nd or maybe 3rd generation. And... I STILL don't think that glass is going to be up to the task. Let's be honest, you would be paying 3 times and up of the cost of the camcorder for a decent piece of glass on a 4k camera.
Hi Mark.

What inside information do you have on the camera, I am quite disturbed by the fact JVC are trying to sell us toys or tec experiments or marketing gimmicks?

Also seems strange you would give advice on avoiding a product that I assume you have never used.

Anyone paying for glass that costs 3 times or more of any particular camera, is highly likely to be someone working beyond the financial bracket of this particular camera. Besides, I have used glass that cost 100k for working at only 1080. So your point on the cost of expensive lenses and cheap cameras is something I don't quite get.

Maybe the cost of the camera and its picture quality of even 4K down scaled to 1080, is the real point here. It is after all the whole point to the project, that you have quite obviously seemed to miss.

If it's native 1080 image quality is anything like the images of the one in this test. Then the choice of a purchase, would be an easy one, at least for me.

Remember that just because it is 4K, you still have the option to shoot at 1080. This is something that people will find interesting at low budgets, especially if the 4K sensor helps to resolve a full 1080 image.

Anyway, for all of your, in my opinion unnecessary speculation. You are going to have tough time putting up an argument against even this less than perfect test footage.

Dave
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:46 PM   #6
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Hi Dave,

No 'insider information' - I'm just quoting from a Youtube review I saw a while back where a JVC exec said "this is an exercise in technology and we have no plans to market this at present". The truth is, it has emerged in almost exactly the form it came out of R&D...... I've never forgiven JVC for giving us VHS :) !!
I'm bu**ered if I can find the clip now (it's probably been removed by JVC!) - but if I do I'll post a link to it.

At the end of the day Dave - if the product is right for you (or anybody else), then great, fill your boots and enjoy. I'm saying I wouldn't purchase it based on what I've seen so far (you might also want to check out the 'clunky' touch screen interface that is slow to respond before you make your decision). Personally I would never buy a camera without doing a lot of research and hands on testing and talking to other people who have made a purchase. I certainly wouldn't go out and blow my hard earned $$$ on some downloaded clips from the internet - but that's me. It's the same reason I don't like version x.0 of software/firmware.

The other thing I'm dubious about is the size of the sensor - what depth of field can you realistically expect to get out of a single 1/2 chip camera? How well is it going to perform in low light?

I totally understand your argument regarding using it for 1080 aquisition but in order to utilise it for this are you still not going to have to 'shoot in 4k' and thus use 4 media cards (unless you are going to record to an external device (or 4 external devices !!) which kind of defeats the portablity argument of this camcorder)? Again, personally I don't like relying on four memory devices with no redundancy.

Like I say - these are all my personal opinions and others will have to form theirs but I'm afraid this camcorder is NOT for me.

I guess it probably has a place in the porn industry ! :)
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Main Editing System: Sinclair ZX81 0.75Mhz chip (Overclocked to 12Ghz), Liquid Nitrogen Cooled. 48k of RAM, Compact Cassette tape drive (9600 baud), 4" B&W monitor. No keyboard - all input by thought transfer from a colander on my head. Gives me 180 layers of 4k in real time (all with 3D PIP added) and can encode and burn a 2 hour Blu Ray in just under 12 seconds. Custom editing chair that floats on magnets 2 feet above the floor. I am also able to travel in time.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:58 AM   #7
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Hi Mark.

Totally get what you are saying and understand your caution. Indeed I would never run out and spend my hard earned cash on the basis of a couple of web clips. I obviously see a more immediate use for this camera if the final production version lives up to the expectations.

To be honest I am more interested in its 1080 performance, with the option to go 4K as and when it may be required. JVC are going on about their new video DSP chips in this camera. My hope is that this will allow the full sensor to be used for 1080 via whatever jiggery pokery the JVC's DSPs will be doing, and not giving any of the weirdness usually associated with such processing.

Compatibility with Edius is good, which is also a key factor for working 8 Bit. There are other cameras for 1080 around this price, but if it competes with say an EX3 for 1080, which my downscale test would seem to suggest. Then all things being equal in the build quality and functionality, it would be a serious contender for good 1080 with the ability to do 4K, at least for me.

Clunky anything is never a good thing. As long as it is does not present too much hassle in the functionality department. I would be prepared to live with small annoyances, as would be usual with most things. As you are suggesting this is all speculative and will only become fact with the release. It could end up being a plastic turd, in which case it can go and float in a toilet. Or it may be the best thing since the invention of the toilet seat, in which case I will most certainly fill my boots :)

BTW & FYI. I believe there is a new storage device you can augment your tape drive with. Something called a floppy or a diskette drive? It's also been mentioned that Sinclair are bringing out a massive 128k memory upgrade module out as well, but I will believe it when I see it :)

Cheers dude.

Dave.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Union Films View Post
Here is a copy of a PM that I sent to forum user. It explains the whole workflow for this test.

Here is another test project, this one is made direct from JVC's own footage. The master was made in an Edius 4K timeline, by stitching the quadrants back together using 4 video tracks and the layouter (a process that wont be needed when JVC release the proper transferring software, I hope?) The 4K master looked very impressive, although I don't have a 4K monitor. This was then saved as a HQX file for ease of use as a single 4K file, then the timeline was changed to 1080. To make the files easier to use for web download they are converted to h.264 using the Edius AVC exporter at a high bitrate.

Even though these files have been through some processing and been downscaled by Edius. I think the 1080 versions look very interesting. I have compared them to a few different types of 1080 camera files.Even after all the processing and re-encoding, the resolution stands up very well for a downscaled version of 1080. Considering that the nearest decent 1080 camera to it's price, Sony EX3, still costs way more. The JVC does look like it could be a winner. I will do a similar test when I can get hold of some native 1080 footage. The second file is just a quick process through Firstlight, to give it a more film like gamma. Anyway, see what you think.




http://www.mediafire.com/?031cfv0ubilbgaz
Hello,

It looks nice. I was really impressed when I saw first time the picture from this camera.We have a plan to shooting making-off with this camera.Just waiting response from JVC, when it will be available.

Regards
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:41 PM   #9
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Hi Tomo.

I too am impressed with the initial information on this camera. Will let you know as soon as I get some native 1080 footage, or any further info.

Cheers.

Dave.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Union Films View Post
Hi Tomo.

I too am impressed with the initial information on this camera. Will let you know as soon as I get some native 1080 footage, or any further info.

Cheers.

Dave.

Hi Dave,

I didn't know that camera is able to record in native 1080?
I have thought that is 2k/4k only?

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