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Old 01-16-2018, 08:19 PM   #1
Gunn
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Default New computer setup

I finally replaced my computer. The new (to me) computer is disappointing me!
My specs:
I7 5960X 8 core 3.0ghz CPU
ASUS X99 Deluxe Motherboard
Corsair 16GB (32 core) 2133Mhz ram
EVGA Classified SR-2 1200W Power Supply
Geforce GTX 1080Ti Graphics Card
Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb SSD C drive
4 Black Caviar 1TB drives configured to Raid O
Corsair Obsidian 700D Full tower case
Windows 10
Edius 8.53 Workgroup

I am able to work in 4K fine but if I add any enhancement to a clip it stutters. At 1/2 resolution its better but not as good as I had hoped.
This computer has not been setup for video and I think that is my problem.
Also, I now know that my CPU does not have Quick Sync.

I would appreciate any advice!
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:32 PM   #2
noafilm
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Why did you choose a I7 5960X? Not that this is a slow chip but it already 3 or so year old, you would have had much better performance with a i9 7900k which I think is even cheaper then what the I7 5960X was at launch.
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:36 PM   #3
BernH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunn View Post
I finally replaced my computer. The new (to me) computer is disappointing me!
My specs:
I7 5960X 8 core 3.0ghz CPU
ASUS X99 Deluxe Motherboard
Corsair 16GB (32 core) 2133Mhz ram
EVGA Classified SR-2 1200W Power Supply
Geforce GTX 1080Ti Graphics Card
Samsung 950 Pro 512Gb SSD C drive
4 Black Caviar 1TB drives configured to Raid O
Corsair Obsidian 700D Full tower case
Windows 10
Edius 8.53 Workgroup

I am able to work in 4K fine but if I add any enhancement to a clip it stutters. At 1/2 resolution its better but not as good as I had hoped.
This computer has not been setup for video and I think that is my problem.
Also, I now know that my CPU does not have Quick Sync.

I would appreciate any advice!
What kind of files are you playing back?

If they are 4K camera native files, they are probably H264/XAVC based compression, this is a very CPU intensive codec to decode. Try transcoding to GVHQX, it may improve your performance a lot if you prefer to work with high resolution files in the edit, but since you are using workgroup, you could alternately, or even also use the proxy workflow, enabling proxy to work and then disabling proxy for "print to file"/export.
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Edius WG 9.51.5619, various 3rd party plugins, VisTitle 2.8.0.5, Win 7 Ultimate SP1, i7-4790K @ 4GHz with HD4600 GPU embedded, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard, 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, nVidia GTX680 4GB GPU, Matrox MX02 Mini MAX, Corsair 750W PSU, Corsair H110i GT Water Cooler, Corsair C70 case, 4TB Internal RAID 0/stripe (2x2TB Seagate SATAIII HDD's, Win7 Software RAID 0/stripe), 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD, Pioneer BDR-207D, Dual 1920x1080 monitors (one on GTX680 and one on Intel HD4600).
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:30 PM   #4
Gunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noafilm View Post
Why did you choose a I7 5960X? Not that this is a slow chip but it already 3 or so year old, you would have had much better performance with a i9 7900k which I think is even cheaper then what the I7 5960X was at launch.
It came with the package when I got the computer besides the review suggested it was great for 4K.

I will look at the i9 if I don't resolve the issues.

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:39 PM   #5
Gunn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernH View Post
What kind of files are you playing back?

If they are 4K camera native files, they are probably H264/XAVC based compression, this is a very CPU intensive codec to decode. Try transcoding to GVHQX, it may improve your performance a lot if you prefer to work with high resolution files in the edit, but since you are using workgroup, you could alternately, or even also use the proxy workflow, enabling proxy to work and then disabling proxy for "print to file"/export.
I am aware of proxy editing but reluctant to try it with my level of knowledge.
Please do not tell me how simple it is. "Don't confuse me with facts....my mind is made up."

At this time, I just want to check my computer settings.

Thanks
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:54 PM   #6
noafilm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunn View Post
I am aware of proxy editing but reluctant to try it with my level of knowledge.
Please do not tell me how simple it is. "Don't confuse me with facts....my mind is made up."

At this time, I just want to check my computer settings.

Thanks
Actually proxy mode, if you choose the highest 1920x1080 quality, has a image quality that is very close to the original file, I"m almost not able to tell them apart while editing and switching between the 2 modes, only the sound becomes worse in proxymode, it does however have a hugh impact on performance, in proxymode you"ll cut through your 4K footage like through butter. There is hardly any knowledge required to use it.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:12 AM   #7
BernH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunn View Post
I am aware of proxy editing but reluctant to try it with my level of knowledge.
Please do not tell me how simple it is. "Don't confuse me with facts....my mind is made up."

At this time, I just want to check my computer settings.

Thanks
Sorry to ruffle your feathers by making some suggestions that could improve your 4K workflow on a system that is probably a little CPU underpowered based on your description. I will refrain from offering you any help in the future.

B.T.W. - Your post did not say you only wanted to check your settings, it said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunn View Post
I finally replaced my computer. The new (to me) computer is disappointing me!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunn View Post
I would appreciate any advice!
__________________
Edius WG 9.51.5619, various 3rd party plugins, VisTitle 2.8.0.5, Win 7 Ultimate SP1, i7-4790K @ 4GHz with HD4600 GPU embedded, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard, 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, nVidia GTX680 4GB GPU, Matrox MX02 Mini MAX, Corsair 750W PSU, Corsair H110i GT Water Cooler, Corsair C70 case, 4TB Internal RAID 0/stripe (2x2TB Seagate SATAIII HDD's, Win7 Software RAID 0/stripe), 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD, Pioneer BDR-207D, Dual 1920x1080 monitors (one on GTX680 and one on Intel HD4600).
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:06 PM   #8
Gunn
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by BernH View Post
Sorry to ruffle your feathers by making some suggestions that could improve your 4K workflow on a system that is probably a little CPU underpowered based on your description. I will refrain from offering you any help in the future.

B.T.W. - Your post did not say you only wanted to check your settings, it said:
If you can't handle my humor go stand in the corner and pout but don't get mad!

Sorry!
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:21 PM   #9
noafilm
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You should consider using smiley faces because it didn't come across as humor to me either :)

Actually BernH answered your question, your CPU can't keep up which only leaves you with a few other options, buy a new pc with a faster processor or use proxies.
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunn View Post
If you can't handle my humor go stand in the corner and pout but don't get mad!

Sorry!
I am from Newfoundland, so trust me when I say I can handle humour, but your comments did not read as humour. That said, sarcastic humour in particular is a hard thing to portray in messages and emails without making clear that it is humour.

With that in mind, apology accepted.

Now to get back to the point at hand.

As I said, H264/XAVC media is very CPU intensive, and the larger the video frame is, the more CPU intensive the codec becomes. H264 in 1920x1080 might be fine on your system, but 4K in those codecs on any system can be very taxing. Given that you don't have the ability to enable the QuickSync decode for these files and that Edius is normally more CPU centric, the fact that your CPU is only running at 3GHz is probably the root of your issue. For 4K native XAVC files, you would probably really want a 4GHz or faster CPU. Even then, you would not be able to do heavy FX work on them without having a similar problem.

The things I suggested are very simple.

Keeping in mind that any edit software that has a native codec (Avid/DNxHD, Edius/HQ/HQX, Mistika/JS, Final Cut/ProRes, etc) will always work better when using it's native codec, if you want to convert to a GrassValley codec, just select the clips in your bin, right click on them and select transcode from the popup menu. If I recall correctly, Edius will then transcode the clips to whatever codec you have set for your project render format. If this is set as HQ or HQX, from then on you will automatically be using the transcoded media, which will be a lot easier on your CPU, but this transcoded media will be located in your Edius project folder, and will not carry the same file names as the original files. The key point to this, is that the files are re-created in a less compressed codec that does not have temporal/inter-frame compression like H264, but instead uses intra-frame only compression. This means that every frame gets encoded independently of the others, and the CPU doesn't have to reference a sequence frames (a.k.a. GOP or Group of Pictures if you want the long name) that only have small portions encoded, in order to re-construct a frame in that sequence, thereby drastically reducing the CPU overhead required to play a file, and the CPU overhead that is exponentially required to actually apply a filter to that file.

The Proxy creation workflow is similar, but you will want to add the Proxy mode button to your timeline button bar to allow you to switch modes back and forth. Instead of selecting transcode, you can select create proxy in the popup menu. Alternately, if you already have clips on the timeline, changing the mode to Proxy, will also start creation of the proxies. Edius is smart enough to know that if you have proxy mode enabled, you want to use the proxies, but if it is not enabled, it will use the original media. You can do your edit with the proxies, but turn off the proxy mode for your output, so that you are using the higher quality media.

From a user point of view, the proxy workflow really only requires hitting that proxy mode button on your timeline to turn it on or off. If you can handle doing that, there is no other user intervention required.

(Sorry, I am not at my system right now to confirm the precise names of the popup menu items)

Codecs that use temporal/inter-frame compression, such as H264, XAVC, AVCHD, MPEG2-IBP, etc, all require this processing of multiple frames to reconstruct any given frame in a particular GOP. These codec are often referred to as long GOP codecs.

I personally always get any long GOP codec footage converted into an intra-frame codec before editing. It takes a bit of time and drive space, but I do this for two reasons.

#1 As noted above, converting long GOP into intra-frame, preferably the native codec of the NLE I am using, drastically reduces the required CPU overhead and increases system performance and responsiveness

#2 Theoretically, having to do all this inter-frame decoding, increases the chance of introducing additional compression artifacts in your output, particularly if you are applying any video filters. This can even result in compression artifacts changing on different versions of the output, due to the nature of the very lossy long GOP process.

Higher end cameras often don't use a long GOP codec to begin with to avoid these compression artifacts right out of the gate.

With all that in mind, my workflow if I were in your situation, would actually use both of my suggestions. I would first convert the XAVC to HQX to use as my edit master files, and then create the proxy files to use as my "light weight" offline edit files, but turn off proxy mode for the output.

***EDIT/ADDENDUM***
I just looked at the transcode in the bin option. It is called "Convert", however, in my testing, it doesn't seem to make 10bit HQX media, even though I can select it as an option, and seems to be stuck at 8bit HQ. I son't know if it is a bug or a quirk on my system. That said, if this is a bug, the proxy option will still work well for you, as it has for many people here doing 4K.

***Extra EDIT/ADDENDUM***
Looks like the convert option was a quirk with the project I was using. I created a new one and the conversion worked correctly. And as an illustration to my point about system performance with native files, my original file was a 4K ProResHQ file, and the conversion was to 4K GVHQX Online quality. Both are intra frame codecs. and should decode easily, but my playback buffer with the ProRes hovers around 5/32, while the HQX file hovers around 31/32 or 32/32, essentially filled and as good as you could hope for. Using a difference blend mode comparison between them shows a completely black frame, which means that there is no visual difference between them.

I should also add that the conversion actually creates a new clip in the bins, so you would want to make sure to use the new HQX clip instead of the original one.

***AFTER-THOUGHT***
One additional note to add as an after-thought. Another advantage of working with the NLE's native codec is that processing of effects usually happens faster because the system can decode the files faster. This usually translates to faster outputs, especially if you are also making your output file in the native codec. However some effects do put the kaibosh on this theory, such as noise reduction like, NeatVideo and from my experience, many NewBlue effects. In reality most 3rd party effects don't process nearly as fast as the native effects, but if you are only using the native Edius effects the theory pretty much holds true.
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Edius WG 9.51.5619, various 3rd party plugins, VisTitle 2.8.0.5, Win 7 Ultimate SP1, i7-4790K @ 4GHz with HD4600 GPU embedded, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard, 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, nVidia GTX680 4GB GPU, Matrox MX02 Mini MAX, Corsair 750W PSU, Corsair H110i GT Water Cooler, Corsair C70 case, 4TB Internal RAID 0/stripe (2x2TB Seagate SATAIII HDD's, Win7 Software RAID 0/stripe), 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD, Pioneer BDR-207D, Dual 1920x1080 monitors (one on GTX680 and one on Intel HD4600).

Last edited by BernH; 01-19-2018 at 02:33 AM. Reason: add an after-thought
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