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Old 10-27-2014, 05:57 PM   #1
Mat Cain
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Default Editing Footage from the c100 - PF30

So I just got a Canon C100 at work and I am prepping it for a shoot. I would like to shoot 30p but the camera options available are pf30 or 60i. I am new to pf30 and searched online and I am still really not sure what it is. Is it the equivalent of 30p? And if I shoot in pf30 what sort of edius timeline will in need? will i need to convert the footage? I am sure this is a pretty elementary question but pf30 is new to me and I wanted to check into it before I run out and shoot in pf30. Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:15 PM   #2
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progres...egmented_frame
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:10 AM   #3
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Mat I have a C100 (actually selling it to get a C100 Mark 2). The way I understand it is PF30 is 30p in a 60i container. Since I never use it I can't comment on how it will work with Edius or if you have to convert it. For a long time I shot mostly in 30p (primarily with DSLRs). I use a lot of camera movements (SteadiCam, Sliders, etc) so I liked how the footage looked versus 24p. I have a couple of friends who shot with the PF30 setting on the C100 and they hated it. I pretty much changed to shooting 24p once I bought a C100. If you shoot a lot of 30p it takes a little getting used to and you have to adjust your shooting IMO. The best advice I can give is to test it BEFORE your shoot. Try both and see how you like it. Be careful of the exposure on the C100. The LCD is a challenge.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:59 AM   #4
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Hi Mat.

It looks like what Canon call PF is actually PsF, progressive segmented frame.

This process simply splits the progressive frame into the two fields of an interlaced frame. It's not the same as native interlaced capture, as there is no temporal difference between the segments, as there is with interlaced.

For instance in PAL land. 1080 50i has 50 unique different captured half frames. Each of the half frames, or fields, is drawn on the screen in a 50th of a second. Which means that within one 25th of a second, one full interlaced picture has been shown. As each field is a separate snap shot in time, there is motion (temporal) differences between them, all be it at half the vertical resolution per field. Humans can't generally perceive the time difference between the fields, or the lack off resolution per field. But we do generally perceive the motion (temporal) difference with the subject matter, with motion generally being seen as smooth.

PAL 1080 25p on the other hand. Captures and draws one single full resolution picture every 25th of a second. The result of this is a picture characteristic usually associated with that of film. Although the individual pictures, frames, are better resolution than the individual pictures, fields, of interlaced. The motion (temporal) charectoristics are generally perceived by humans, as being not so fluid during pans and in frame movements, compared to interlaced.

1080 25PsF is simply a way of storing a progressive frame across two interlaced fields. You do not gain the temporal advantages of the interlaced format, or interlaced's lack of resolution per picture/field. The single progressive frame that was split into two interlaced fields, is simply rebuilt as a single full frame picture from the two interlaced components, within one 25th of a second. For this process to work correctly, the recieving device has to be able to understand that the signal is PsF, usually via a flag within the signal.

It's worth bearing in mind that PsF is a proper professional standard. It is usually adopted in TV, as there is generally no such thing as a progressive signal when dealing with SDI, or generally with broadcasted signals. But does allow for a progressive image to be broadcasted/transmitted/transported within an interlaced picture structure.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Dave.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:33 PM   #5
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Well this is disappointing. I had a Canon camcorder a few years ago that I used as a back up camera, shooting primarily with DSLRs. It also had this 30PF mode and EDIUS didn't seem to quite read it right. It would detect it as 30 progressive FPS but I would always see these strange interlaced artifacts in places. I tried all sorts of options to get rid of this but couldn't.

In this day and age, to be creating a camera which shoots interlaced instead of progressive in a normal container to me seems ridiculous. I see no reason why they couldn't store the footage frame by frame with out all this interlaced none-sense. At some point, I might try to find a few frames of what I speak of to share the problems I had, at least with the video files stored in that camera. I tried both 24 and 30 with that camera and they had the same issue
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntbone View Post
Well this is disappointing. I had a Canon camcorder a few years ago that I used as a back up camera, shooting primarily with DSLRs. It also had this 30PF mode and EDIUS didn't seem to quite read it right. It would detect it as 30 progressive FPS but I would always see these strange interlaced artifacts in places. I tried all sorts of options to get rid of this but couldn't.

In this day and age, to be creating a camera which shoots interlaced instead of progressive in a normal container to me seems ridiculous. I see no reason why they couldn't store the footage frame by frame with out all this interlaced none-sense. At some point, I might try to find a few frames of what I speak of to share the problems I had, at least with the video files stored in that camera. I tried both 24 and 30 with that camera and they had the same issue
What you find ridiculous is fair enough, as your personal point of view. But an industry that uses it would probably disagree.

Edius uses this format without any issues, and certain Canopus/GV hardware uses it perfectly well.

If a person buys any hardware without understanding what it does, it is hardly the fault of the manufacturer, or something that should be called into question due to a lack of understanding by the user.

If the codec itself was problematic, as opposed to the embedded picture structure, then fair enough. But you may want to post examples, and maybe others with working experience of the format could give you advice.

In any event, it is a fully recognised global industry standard that gets used day in day out.

Cheers,
Dave.
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