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Old 01-26-2020, 05:31 PM   #1
Barry C
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Default A Whole New Appreciation For Edius!

Since buying the new system I have previously described in a recent post, I decided to try DaVinci Resolve Studio 16 after hearing about its better utilization of multi-cores and GPU power.

My workflow is admittedly very specialized, in that I work with 3D and very high res 43mp still images- in excess of 8K- for creating time lapse films. With Edius, I would create a sequence from the 300-450 still images and then convert to HQX and assemble the timeline from these. Even on my older 4790K system, Edius was understandably very slow, but also very stable. Even when I applied the many masks and second track foreground mattes, it has been rock solid on these 8K HQX files.

Now for DaVinci Resolve. Even on 1 layer with project settings set at 8 bit, although it will work fine in color and edit modes, when I go to the crazy Fusion mode for masking, all bets are off. The playback is TERRIBLE, and when adding even 1 node and trying to scroll, it will completely freeze up. Even moving back to color or edit after Fusion won't help- Ctrl/Alt/Del. On my new system, if set from 10 to 8 bit, even with adjustments and masks, and second track mattes, Edius will play in realtime and is rock solid on these 8K HQX sequences. I even tried converting to other codecs, thinking that perhaps Resolve's Fusion mode would like them better than HQX. Nope!

So, at least for my unusual workflow, Edius is a real superstar of stability and reliability. Resolve has left me decidedly underwhelmed.
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Last edited by Barry C; 01-26-2020 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 01-26-2020, 06:15 PM   #2
BernH
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Originally Posted by Barry C View Post
Since buying the new system I have previously described in a recent post, I decided to try DaVinci Resolve Studio 16 after hearing about its better utilization of multi-cores and GPU power.

My workflow is admittedly very specialized, in that I work with 3D and very high res 43mp still images- in excess of 8K- for creating time lapse films. With Edius, I would create a sequence from the 300-450 still images and then convert to HQX and assemble the timeline from these. Even on my older 4790K system, Edius was understandably very slow, but also very stable. Even when I applied the many masks and second track foreground mattes, it has been rock solid on these 8K HQX files.

Now for DaVinci Resolve. Even on 1 layer with project settings set at 8 bit, although it will work fine in color and edit modes, when I go to the crazy Fusion mode for masking, all bets are off. The playback is TERRIBLE, and when adding even 1 node and trying to scroll, it will completely freeze up. Even moving back to color or edit after Fusion won't help- Ctrl/Alt/Del. On my new system, if set from 10 to 8 bit, even with adjustments and masks, and second track mattes, Edius will play in realtime and is rock solid on these 8K HQX sequences. I even tried converting to other codecs, thinking that perhaps Resolve's Fusion mode would like them better than HQX. Nope!

So, at least for my unusual workflow, Edius is a real superstar of stability and reliability. Resolve has left me decidedly underwhelmed.
Barry, if it helps with understanding and using resolve, it was designed originally as a colour correction suite, optimized for use with .dpx sequences. (this straight from the mouth of a former black magic employee that was on the ground with them when they first acquired resolve), and this is likely the file type that will give you the best performance. I have seen this first hand even with the $60K+, 4 GPU, linux based resolve system we have at the office.

Fusion is a new addition to resolve, and was recently aquired when they purchased Eye-On. It is a good VFX software, but will likely not do realtime playback well, just like After Effects, Boris FX/RED etc.
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Old 01-26-2020, 06:55 PM   #3
Barry C
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Barry, if it helps with understanding and using resolve, it was designed originally as a colour correction suite, optimized for use with .dpx sequences. (this straight from the mouth of a former black magic employee that was on the ground with them when they first acquired resolve), and this is likely the file type that will give you the best performance. I have seen this first hand even with the $60K+, 4 GPU, linux based resolve system we have at the office.

Fusion is a new addition to resolve, and was recently aquired when they purchased Eye-On. It is a good VFX software, but will likely not do realtime playback well, just like After Effects, Boris FX/RED etc.
Hi Bern,
I think that when you just try to cobble a bunch of things together, the end result is a glitchy, erratic, program. Aside from the fact that I consider the whole Fusion UI to be needlessly complex, unintuitive- unlike Edius- and something which reminded me of some of my son's homework from his college electrical engineering class, for me the surprising and most unwelcome aspect is that when switching to Fusion and applying a node, not only is realtime playback gone there, but it is also gone when switching back to Color, Edit, etc. Of course, this is usually irrelevant, since the whole program has already locked up anyway.
Like I said, really makes me appreciate the UI logical design, and rock solid stability of Edius!
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Last edited by Barry C; 01-26-2020 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:08 PM   #4
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Hi Bern,
I think that when you just try to cobble a bunch of things together, the end result is a glitchy, erratic, program. Aside from the fact that I consider the whole Fusion UI to be needlessly complex, unintuitive- unlike Edius- and something which reminded me of some of my son's homework from his college electrical engineering class, for me the surprising and most unwelcome aspect is that when switching to Fusion and applying a node, not only is realtime playback gone there, but it is also gone when switching back to Color, Edit, etc. Of course, this is usually irrelevant, since the whole program has already locked up anyway.
Like I said, really makes me appreciate the UI logical design, and rock solid stability of Edius!
I have not had the fortune to play with the version of fusion that is in the new versions of resolve, so can't rally comment on the lockups and performance after coming out of that mode, but the few times I have engaged fusion mode by mistake, I didn't see any problems coming out of it. I used to sell Fusion years ago before Eye-On was purchased by BM, and know several people that use it as a stand along vfx package. I don't find it overly complex, but it is a different way of thinking and working. Once you get your head working in that space it isn't too bad.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:32 PM   #5
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I may agree with you Barry if EDIUS could do anything close to Fusion. And on my system which is much lower powered than yours Fusion titles work just fine full resolution and speed in a 1920x1080 timeline which is what I work in most of the time. Fusion is a competitor for AE and has to be treated the same way to rotoscope and create . I have only used the Text+ titles and modified them and they work just fine.

May I ask you to put the files I sent you on the timeline in Resolve and see how many layers will play full resolution and speed. Again on my system ALL the files I sent you will play with three tracks of pips and the ProRes up to 5. Edius in comparison will only play 1 track of UHD 10bit 4:2:2 ProRes on my system. Will not play the DCI30P or the HLG 30P 10bit files. So a very big performance difference. While playing these three tracks of ProRes in Resolve the CPU is at 22% and GPU at 25% compared to maxed out for Edius playing one track.

Why do you go to Fusion for masking (often called power windows in Resolve ) as that is available on the colour page specifically there for colour adjustments to section of the image with tracking also on the color page. Or creating an alpha channel to reveal the track below. I put masks on the files I sent you and changed colour of these sections with keyframe changes and playback was exactly the same except CPU was now up to 28% and GPU now 40%. Considering your new PC you should be able to do this with maybe 5 tracks. Lots of YouTube videos on masking in Resolve

Edius is my favourite editor because I love the multicam but for a single track, high resolution and bit depth it is currently not competitive on performance with Resolve Studio 16. Edius 9 does have the advantage on a PC in that it can output ProRes that the Windows version of Resolve cannot do. I am not a one product sort of guy so love having EDIUS 9.5, Vegas 17 and Resolve Studio 16 for different reasons.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:35 PM   #6
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I have not had the fortune to play with the version of fusion that is in the new versions of resolve, so can't rally comment on the lockups and performance after coming out of that mode, but the few times I have engaged fusion mode by mistake, I didn't see any problems coming out of it. I used to sell Fusion years ago before Eye-On was purchased by BM, and know several people that use it as a stand along vfx package. I don't find it overly complex, but it is a different way of thinking and working. Once you get your head working in that space it isn't too bad.
Agreed, that Fusion, like anything else, would probably be easy to master within a short period of time. And, if I had a 4K source workflow, I think Resolve and Fusion would be just fine for that. However, with these essentially 8K files I work with, Fusion is completely unusable. Whereas, Edius works just fine.
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Old 01-26-2020, 07:50 PM   #7
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Barry, one thing to understand about Resolve is all the pages are linked. Anything you do on one page is then embed into the project and will therefore effect performance everywhere. I have spent about a year watching courses on Resolve and have yet to venture into really playing on the Fusion page or for that matter the Fairlight page !

Again I ask why are you using Fusion. If all you want to do is mask that is not necessary as the colour page will do all but the most crazy things. Just like EDIUS you can create a mask and track. The only difference is how the actions are done to create the effect you want with in or around the mask. If you want to use an alpha mask it is done by creating a node with this option. Then it works just like EDIUS.
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ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS 9.5 WG, Vegas 17, Resolve Studio 16


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Old 01-27-2020, 12:13 AM   #8
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I may agree with you Barry if EDIUS could do anything close to Fusion. And on my system which is much lower powered than yours Fusion titles work just fine full resolution and speed in a 1920x1080 timeline which is what I work in most of the time. Fusion is a competitor for AE and has to be treated the same way to rotoscope and create . I have only used the Text+ titles and modified them and they work just fine.

May I ask you to put the files I sent you on the timeline in Resolve and see how many layers will play full resolution and speed. Again on my system ALL the files I sent you will play with three tracks of pips and the ProRes up to 5. Edius in comparison will only play 1 track of UHD 10bit 4:2:2 ProRes on my system. Will not play the DCI30P or the HLG 30P 10bit files. So a very big performance difference. While playing these three tracks of ProRes in Resolve the CPU is at 22% and GPU at 25% compared to maxed out for Edius playing one track.

Why do you go to Fusion for masking (often called power windows in Resolve ) as that is available on the colour page specifically there for colour adjustments to section of the image with tracking also on the color page. Or creating an alpha channel to reveal the track below. I put masks on the files I sent you and changed colour of these sections with keyframe changes and playback was exactly the same except CPU was now up to 28% and GPU now 40%. Considering your new PC you should be able to do this with maybe 5 tracks. Lots of YouTube videos on masking in Resolve

Edius is my favourite editor because I love the multicam but for a single track, high resolution and bit depth it is currently not competitive on performance with Resolve Studio 16. Edius 9 does have the advantage on a PC in that it can output ProRes that the Windows version of Resolve cannot do. I am not a one product sort of guy so love having EDIUS 9.5, Vegas 17 and Resolve Studio 16 for different reasons.
Ron, I've been a bit busy, but I did get a chance to test the 4096:2160 10bit rec709 file. Assuming, I had the project settings done correctly, I stopped at 9 layers with 8 PIP. I had to do an errand but pretty sure I could have kept going as it wasn't even beginning to stutter at 9.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:49 AM   #9
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I tried doing a few things in the Fusion page using some image sequences I had rendered from Blender and it pretty much crashed every time. Not straight away, just some time during the process.

Despite a lot of time playing with Fusion I still use EDIUS for my edits because it "just works".

If I need do some complex compositing I will go to stand alone fusion or After Effects/HitFilm. For simple stuff EDIUS is good enough.
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Old 01-27-2020, 03:36 PM   #10
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I note posts on the BM forum that report some people having crashes with Fusion page too. I have not played with Fusion page other than use some of the text + titles on the edit page that are actually Fusion generated titles. Must play a little and see if my system crashes too.

I agree EDIUS is much easier to use than Resolve there are things Resolve can do that are just not possible in EDIUS though so having both is really useful. The one I use all the time is to correct the deep red colour that my GH5's have difficulty getting correct. Impossible in EDIUS but easy in Resolve.
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