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Old 11-26-2007, 10:22 AM   #41
kungperra
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Barry,
Sorry, the last file must have corrupted itself when uploading it. a new file is in place now along with the original m2t file...

"who is correct" Im not sure i understand what you mean there...?

And im sorry, the horse racing videos, i wanted to know if that is what i would expect on an SD disc, and that you have verified so i guess its what i can get out of it. thank you for checking that out! The William movie is the one i have problems with the shimmering, but as you describe the problem, I guess I just cant downconvert that file without the shimmering problem as its just not technically possible?!

And aboout the shallow depth in the horse racing, i dont think its possible with the HV20 camera to get that to have a better depth when it comes to the focus...

And thank you very very much again!

//Perra
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:58 AM   #42
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Pera
Got them OK
Perhaps just a slight amount of movement (shimmering) on the second clip (highchair) in the grass in the background but it is only visible if I really look and put it up on the screen through the projector. Image is nearly two and a half meters across.
As to degradation on down sizing to SD 720x576 all videos appear good to me.
They are not going to be the same as the HDV footage.
Are you using the HV20 in Auto, Instant Auto focus or manual as in the video of William I detected it was focussed on the background not the subject.
That is as good as it gets on SD DVD, as good as any commercial DVD, for all my HDV footage I use a DVICO TViX 5000 HD Player until Blueray becomes a proposition, if ever.
I use my HV20 in Prog AE with the apature set to between F4 - F6.8 and F8 if really necessary and use iAF a lot as the manual focus is rather difficult, plus I leave the "Peaking" on all the time, takes a little getting used to but quickly identifies what is in focus.
The only problem you now have is to try the video on another monitor to see if the "shimmering" is there as I can detect none. Both my monitor and Projector are LCD perhaps this masks it, I must try on a friends plasma and CRT to see if it occurs, so far no one has complained of this problem on my DVD's
Regards Barry
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:56 PM   #43
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Barry,
Ok then I will have to try another place for playback as well, i have a plasma 42" TV but i dont have a suitable connection at the moment for making a fair check on quality(SCART) . I have tried it on my Hitachi PJ TX200 projector as well, and when i can see shimmering is on the ground on the "stones" ( i dont know the name for small stones as is on the ground behind William, as well as where you said :) ) But maybe its just my playback devices thats not up to the task of displaying it good enough, I use a Marantz DV6600 DVD player...

But its good to know that the downconversion is working as it should so that i do not have to try another 1000 ways of downconverting it as it wont be any diffrent.

If i had autofocus or not on the clip with William, i have to say that im not certain there, it was a testshot i did this summer, and i cant remember. But its good to know what settings you have been using, I will try that the next racerecording and see if I can get a better depth of field, although that will not bu intil next summer... But i will remember this!

Thank you for all your help with everything! I am very grateful!!!

And thanks to all of you for helping out!

Regards
Perra
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:19 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kungperra View Post
So that makes me wonder, IF im just going to output the movies to SD DVD, will it always be a better result shooting in 720x576i directly, so i dont have to deal with the downconversion....? When we bought the HDV camera, i thought that shoot in the best possible(what was affordable) and it would give me a DVD that was really good... but maybe i should start filming in 576i instead?!

I saw someone (maybe you) that said something about haveing problems with Encore as authering program, maybe that makes some of theese probs as well...
Are you playing this on a CRT televison. You will notice shimmer on CRT's more than on LCD or Plasma. I get that if the tube is set with too much sharpening added. Try rolling off the sharp button a little and see if that reduces the flickering.


If you are so all fired up to shoot in a lower standard, go right ahead.
Why don't you try that anyway. You have asked this before.
Shoot the same subject in HD and in SD and make a DVD out of both. If you do it right the DVD mastered from a high definition image will be better by far, than the straight SD workflow ( shot in DV not betacam or digibeta).
Your other option is to import the HD file into a standard timeline and try that.
The other method would be to have the camera do the downconversion and capture as SD. You will see an increase in computer power while editing, but the image will be of lesser quality.

Encore will not cause the shimmering. This is due to the acutal footage and type of conversion. The only way it would have an effect is if you do the transcoding within Encore and pick the wrong settings. Personally, Encore works great for me, on two completely different machines. Many others on this board use it as well. I would not be so hasty on trying to blame Encore
for your problems.

If you are using stills and you are getting shimmering or flickering edges, all that means is that you did not prepare the photo properly.
The same goes for the video.

Since Barry played your files, without shimmer on his lcd, you might want to take that dvd to someone with an LCD television(not computer monitor) and try playback there.
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:06 PM   #45
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Jerry,
Im playing it back on my plasma 42" and my projector (LCD), but as i said prev. i dont have a good connection from my DVD player to the plasma so I cant really judge the results from that, I will buy a hdmi cable soon to make up for that loss of quality. So no CRTs involved. But I will take my material to someone that has got a LCD set and see if I get the same results... But I will try and go back on the sharpness and see what happens too on my current display devices.

And when it comes to shooting in HD contra SD, its not that I want to shoot in SD, I definitely rather shoot in HD, as I might want to transfer my clips to a HD disc in the future. The reason I asked this was just to get confirmed IF it would be better to shoot in SD, as I dont know if Im doing something wrong in either conversion. But as you answered me previously, I should continue shooting in HDV, and I will. I just had to know what was the best way...
Its not that important about the computer power, i want the best possible quality, even if it takes some extra time editing and or converting the footage. So I will stick in the HD world... :)

Im sorry i dont mean to blame Encore, its was more a question cause i had read that there might be a problem with encore, and asked about it. And the "problem" could very well be me doing the wrong settings in encore, IF it was a problem. But it wasnt so far as the results from encore have given me the same results as with some other tool. So sorry, I didnt mean to blame anyone here...

//Perra
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:13 PM   #46
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I have a 42" Plasma connected via component cable and all your footage looks fine

the only thing I noticed is that your original HDV clip does not look sharper than my SD clips coming from Sony DXC-D35WSP with Fujinon lens

also, I noticed that the kids (foreground) were slightly out of focus but the background was focused
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:37 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kungperra View Post
And when it comes to shooting in HD contra SD, its not that I want to shoot in SD, I definitely rather shoot in HD, as I might want to transfer my clips to a HD disc in the future. The reason I asked this was just to get confirmed IF it would be better to shoot in SD, as I dont know if Im doing something wrong in either conversion. But as you answered me previously, I should continue shooting in HDV, and I will. I just had to know what was the best way...


Don't let me tell you which way to shoot. Try it for yourself. See the difference. It doesn't take that much time to do the test I mentioned in the last post. That way you can see the difference for yourself. It will give you
a starting point from which to work.

But while shooting keep a close watch on your focus. The fudge factor for HD is a whole lot less than SD. Use the peaking and Magnify function on your camera and possibly keep a good focus chart nearby.

Also, keep in mind that your 42" plasma probably doesn't have a good upconvertor built in. This can give you shimmering and dancing images.
I have found that my HDDVD player through the HDMI cable does a really good job of upconverting. It still is like putting am signal on an fm carrier, but it looks pretty good at a normal distance. Keep that in mind as well.
If you are standing right at the display you will see all of the artifacting going on. Sit back about 8-10 feet and judge it from there.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:07 AM   #48
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Anton,

Thank you very much for trying out the footage as well! I think the focus must have been off in some way when shooting that clip, I dont know if i was trying out some settings att that point in time(this summer) and maybe i had the focus on manual and screwed up that shoot...
Its shot with a Canon HV20 camera, maybe your Sony DXC-D35WSP is better cause its a more high end camera even if you shoot it in SD... or maybe i have been doing something with the settings in the HV20 camera that i should have...

Jerry,

Its not that Im not going to try what you suggested, I will, its just that I want to know how it should be, and if I dont get a better quality from the HD shot then from the SD shot, then I have probably done something wrong. So I just wanted to know how it was supposed to be, so i dont lie to myself when trying it out...Im still trying to learn some here as i dont have enough experience on the subject.

For the view on my plasma, I will go and buy a HDMI cable today and see what diffrence that will make.

Thank you guys again!

//Perra
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