Grass Valley Forums Facebook   Twitter   YouTube  

Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Converters > ProCoder

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-20-2007, 04:09 PM   #1
shueardm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Australia
Posts: 3,504
Default ProCoder 3 speed and grid encoding

I've done much testing of ProCoder 3 in the last week.
I believe there are questions to be asked about the grid encoding and HD to SD speeds of Mpeg 2 rendering.

My findings are this.

1. Grid encoding is not faster.
2. ProCoder 2 is twice as fast as ProCoder 3 when going from HD to SD Mpeg 2.

I can't keep this to myself. Don't buy ProCoder 3 upgrade if it's based on extra speed.

Last edited by shueardm; 05-20-2007 at 05:05 PM.
shueardm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2007, 04:24 PM   #2
Zorro
Senior Member
 
Zorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vienna
Posts: 2,089
Default

ProCoder 3 site says the following:

Grid encoding for MPEG-2 (transport stream, program stream) support for multiple CPUs within one PC (including dual and quad core CPUs). Applies to 'HDV Target' and 'Preview DVD target' settings
Zorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2007, 04:34 PM   #3
shueardm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Australia
Posts: 3,504
Default

Yeah, I'm creating from the Preview DVD setting.

Quote:
Question: I see that you have to choose 'Preview DVD Target' to make SD MPEG-2 streams with the Grid Encoder, but I don't want to make a DVD with this software? Also, does 'Preview' mean lower quality?

Answer: The name 'Preview DVD Target' is simply that - a name. You can still choose to make elementary streams, with custom bitrate and full quality control settings. You can even encode the audio to AC-3.
So can you, or can't you use elementary streams with grid encoding?

If you can, then it aint working. If you can't then why does it allow the option?
Update: Using program stream takes the same time as elementary stream. I haven't tried HDV target yet, maybe that's the only placegrid encoding works.

I have 2 x 5140 dual core CPU and still only an average of maybe 50% useage.
I tell you what's happening.

When using grid encoding, the 4 cores are doing about the same work but with normal DVD target, only one core is doing the work, it's maxed out. In the end, both methods finished my test clip in the exact same time.

Last edited by shueardm; 05-20-2007 at 05:27 PM.
shueardm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2007, 04:48 PM   #4
mark_m
Member
 
mark_m's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 55
Default

Thanks for the heads up Mark. I look forward to hearing more on this, since one of the reasons for upgrade is the Grid Encoder. I can't believe that it doesn't work in theory/testing so I am curious to discover why the grid encoder isn't working in practice.
mark_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2007, 06:44 PM   #5
Markus K.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"When the grid encoder is engaged, it breaks the source up into separate components - each of which is assigned a CPU core to be encoded."


This looks for me like the same function that is included in PC2 if you're using the queue with the option "split for multiple cpu's".

So grid encoding seems to be nothing new to me... I also never used "split for multiple cpu's" in PC2 cause splitting and joining the files (large uncompressed video data) always took as long as encoding them directly in one piece.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2007, 09:08 PM   #6
GrassValley_KH
Mr Sparkle
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,748
Default

Grid Encoding is different from that option (in PC2.0). If I have it right, the PC2.0 option was designed to spread multiple queued processes across physical CPUs (pre multi-core, single die CPUs).

But back onto the original post - can we have some actual details on what processes and settings you performed on your (spec-listed) machine, to come to this conclusion?

It's no use to us saying "it doesn't work" without giving us something to look at, no?
GrassValley_KH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2007, 09:28 PM   #7
Markus K.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't have PC3 yet, so I have to rely on the experiences from other users here.

The "split for multiple cpu's" option from ProCoder's 2 queue function splits the source file into several segments (you can see this as the splitted pieces appear on the harddisk) and runs an encoding instance for each part of the source file parallel on the cores in a multi cpu / multi core system. After encoding it joins the pieces to one file again.

So technically it seems to me as it is excactly the same as described in the FAQ for grid encoding (splitting the source and joining after encoding), but ProCoder 3 performs this process in the backround instead of showing the preparing / splitting process in the queue?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2007, 10:07 PM   #8
THoff
Senior Member
 
THoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: California, USA
Posts: 2,581
Default

Anyone who wants to compare PC3 with an without Grid Encoding can easily fool Windows into thinking that there is only one processor by modifying the BOOT.INI file in the root directory of their system volume.

For instance, if you have the following in your BOOT.INI
Code:
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut
you can add a second Windows configuration by adding a copy of the last line with one additional parameter and an appropriate description of the boot configuration:
Code:
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional (One CPU)" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptOut /OneCPU
Regardless of whether you have a hyperthreaded or multicore processor, this will cause Windows to hide all but the first physical processor from the Hardware Abstraction Layer. You can now compare your overall system performance (and that of PC3) with absolutely no other changes to the hardware configuration; try encoding the same source under both configurations to see whether Grid Encoding is of benefit to you.
THoff is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2007, 12:37 AM   #9
shueardm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Australia
Posts: 3,504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassValley_KH View Post
But back onto the original post - can we have some actual details on what processes and settings you performed on your (spec-listed) machine, to come to this conclusion?

It's no use to us saying "it doesn't work" without giving us something to look at, no?
If you are game, I can even compare the speed to a competing product, but I'm a little hesitant, it is jaw dropping stuff!!!!

One example of testing grid encoding

Sample source file is 3 min 17 sec Canopus HQ 1440x1080 PAL file.

1. Using ProCoder 3 preview DVD setting (grid encoding) , mastering quality, program stream (also used elementary for same result) 6000 bit rate, mpeg audio (doesn't make any difference which audio you choose)- this file took 7 mins 42 secs.

2. Same source file using standard PAL DVD Mastering Q preset, all the same output settings as above- total time is exact same 7 mins 42 secs.

My system specs are .
2 x Xeon 5140, 4 X 1 GB FBDIMM, Raptor HDD, Video drive 2TB RAID 5 350+Mbps read, Quadro FX card.

Then I used ProCoder 2 (which doesn't do grid encoding) and the same source and the same target took a total of 3 mins 34 secs.

Last edited by shueardm; 05-21-2007 at 12:50 AM.
shueardm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2007, 01:01 AM   #10
GrassValley_KH
Mr Sparkle
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,748
Default

Any chance you can upload the source file somewhere, or is it too big?
GrassValley_KH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
 
Go Back   Grass Valley Forums > Converters > ProCoder
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Standard & Grid Settings Mr Bill ProCoder 2 03-10-2008 01:42 AM
PC3 and Quadcores? enriquelondaits ProCoder 33 09-17-2007 11:45 PM
ProCoder 3 Product miniFAQ (updated 2008/02/25) GrassValley_KH ProCoder 0 05-12-2007 01:57 AM
Speed Encoder Khoi Pham Editing with EDIUS 0 05-10-2007 08:18 PM
Procoder 3 rendering times planetweckesser ProCoder 3 05-10-2007 07:27 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:44 PM.


Copyright 2014 Belden Inc. All rights reserved.