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Old 06-27-2019, 02:08 AM   #1
Liverpool TV
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Default Edius 9 and H.265 exporting.

When exporting H.265 in Edius 9, there's no indication that QS acceleration is being used 'Use Hardware Encoding', as it does when exporting H.264.

Is this simply because QS is the only option anyway, so there's no distinction between alternatives because they don't exist as they do with H.264? As in, software/CPU and hardware acceleration/QS.

Cheers,
Dave.
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Old 06-27-2019, 06:52 AM   #2
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There is no Hardware checkbox for H265
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Lewis View Post
There is no Hardware checkbox for H265
Thanks. Is there only QS encoding for H.264 and no software option?
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If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

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Old 06-27-2019, 10:38 AM   #4
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I googled that last week but no answer i suspect its for h264.
I did a quick file this week to take to currys to heck which tvs were 10 bit panels It was from my pxw x70 it was xavc 1920 10 bit
The 3 minute timeline exported to h265 in 90secs
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:00 AM   #5
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QS is used for H265 export
without QS, you get a hardware error if you tried to export H265

QS can also be used for H264 export but better quality can be achieved if disabling hardware
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:03 AM   #6
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I always thought it might as it did not give an error when trying to export
Dont really use h265 myself it was a one off for the test
Thanks for confirming anyway
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Lewis View Post
I googled that last week but no answer i suspect its for h264.
I did a quick file this week to take to currys to heck which tvs were 10 bit panels It was from my pxw x70 it was xavc 1920 10 bit
The 3 minute timeline exported to h265 in 90secs
Thanks John. I did mean QS only for H.265, although you did understand what I meant.

Iím very impressed so far, between one and half to three and half minutes for a one minute encode, depending on bit depth, colour space, inter/intra settings and various other export parameters.

These encodes are visually the same as X264/5 when QS is set to 100/200Mb/s X264/5 is taking up to 15 minutes for a one minute encode. Although X264 is noticeably better at the low bit rates, the high bit rates from Edius/QS are fine for certain intermediates but way faster and reduce the workflow as well.

I know I shouldnít after all these years but Iím still amazed at how underestimated Edius still is. Iíve been dabbling again with the usual suspects recently, not that Iím ever going to change it was just for workflow/codec comparison. And Edius is still the best for certain functions, speed and workflow types.

The one thing that Iíve noticed about GVís positioning for Edius in broadcast, although Iím not sure if this was ever intentional. Is that Edius seems to fit better than most for modern self contained workflows. With the distinctions between traditional legacy workflows becoming very blurred, Film, TV etc. and physical workflows/deliveries, due to internet and streaming. GVís positioning of Edius seems to work amazingly well for current workflows and looks like it will only become more relevant.

Hopefully some of GVís recent and future developments, Rio, GO etc. will work their way down to small production levels.

Anyway, Iíve been testing a trial of E9 and itís all good, hopefully thereís an affordable 8K option.

Cheers,
Dave.
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If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?
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Old 06-27-2019, 12:30 PM   #8
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A while back I did h.264 UHD tests between Edius QS and the TMPGE AVC plugin, which will also use QS but with more settings. To be clear, when using QS in TMPGE, the dual pass option is grayed out. Both are direct timeline exports.
TMPGE AVC PLUGIN INTERFACE.png

As have discovered, as long as you throw a high enough bitrate to QS, it will produce a very comparable product. However, the plus with the TMPGE AVC plugin, is that it has a dual pass option. Of all of the tests I made, the dual pass option produced the best product.

It takes a little longer, but the final product is very, very nice with a manageable file size. There are other pluses, but those are part of this discussion.

Hopefully, the next version of Edius will have a software H.265 option. This would be helpful for users with 'X' series systems.
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Old 06-27-2019, 12:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antonsvideo View Post
QS is used for H265 export
without QS, you get a hardware error if you tried to export H265

QS can also be used for H264 export but better quality can be achieved if disabling hardware
Thanks Anton. I've just seen one of David Clarke's videos where he mentions the same. I'll try software H.264 in E9 as well, although for this particular use bit rate isn't an issue, it's more a balance of speed and quality.

Cheers,
Dave.
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"There's only one thing more powerful than knowledge. The free sharing of it"

If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?
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Old 06-27-2019, 01:17 PM   #10
Liverpool TV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
A while back I did h.264 UHD tests between Edius QS and the TMPGE AVC plugin, which will also use QS but with more settings. To be clear, when using QS in TMPGE, the dual pass option is grayed out. Both are direct timeline exports.
Attachment 20511

As have discovered, as long as you throw a high enough bitrate to QS, it will produce a very comparable product. However, the plus with the TMPGE AVC plugin, is that it has a dual pass option. Of all of the tests I made, the dual pass option produced the best product.

It takes a little longer, but the final product is very, very nice with a manageable file size. There are other pluses, but those are part of this discussion.

Hopefully, the next version of Edius will have a software H.265 option. This would be helpful for users with 'X' series systems.
Thanks Jerry.

I've noticed similar when using QS outside of Edius. For the more usual bit rates my conclusions were the same as yours.

For stuff where an intermediate's bit rate isn't a concern, as long as it's an acceptable lower bit rate inter-frame option for scenarios where uncompressed or HQ/X isn't necessary. I find that both the single pass constant quality RF/QP option for X264 and QS are both about the same visually, although QS is faster for the higher encode settings.

For the absolute highest end quality for low bit rate stuff, X264/5 two pass exhaustive encoding is always the best. VP9 does have a slight edge here but is highly impractical for its processing/encoding time and also for playback. I think MKV is the preferred container/wrapper for VP9 but it too has associated issues. It'll be interesting to see how AV1 turns out but considering all the practical issues with h.265 and VP9, I can't see AV1 becoming a big deal any time soon.

Another observation I've made is that where working with 10 bit 4:2:2 rec.709 source material is concerned and the final target is 8 Bit 4:2:0 rec.709, YouTube etc. It appears that there is no dithering taking place, so preparing and exporting a truncated 8 bit intermediate is all that's needed and quicker and smaller to deal with. HDR and 10 bit destinations obviously need dealing with appropriately.

For any absolute quality stuff where HQ/X can be used, I'd always use them for intermediate and YouTube uploads. Plus it means that I only generate one master, as HQ/X is my only mastering codec. I've done many production tests over the years with HQ and HQX and have found them to be both visually indistinguishable from their uncompressed counterparts. Even when used as an intermediate the resulting transcodes are visually identical with HQ/X compared to the transcodes from the uncompressed intermediates.

I'll share some boring tests next week that some people may find interesting. I'm uploading variations of HD/UHD 60 FPS stuff at 8 and 10 bit uncompressed then a bunch of X264 and QS variations to YouTube to guague the differences.

Cheers,
dave.
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If you don't know the difference between Azimuth and Asimov, then either your tapes sound bad and your Robot is very dangerous. Kill all humans...... Or your tape deck won't harm a human, and your Robot's tracking and stereo imagining is spot on.

Is your Robot three laws safe?
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