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Old 01-11-2018, 08:14 PM   #1
yRenegade
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Default Multicam editing

Hello,

I would like to edit 8-10 streams at multicam mode. The video sources are standard hd streams (1080i, 50mbps, 4:2:2, mxf).

A simple integrated video adapter could play the streams seamless in multicam mode? For example an Intel HD Graphics 630 adapter (in an i7-7700K cpu).
There are no effects or any cpu/gpu dependent stuff on the streams, just the pure videos.

What do You think?

Thanks,
yRenegade
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:17 AM   #2
BernH
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Edius relies a lot more on CPU and HDD speeds than GPU. If you have fast enough drives, fast enough multi-core CPU, and depending on the file types and codec of the files you are using, you should be able to do it.

You can always use proxy mode to lighten the load on the system, and/or reduce the preview resolution if you have Edius Workgroup.

Your CPU should be fast enough, but the other variables are unknown, since you didn't post any further details.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:46 PM   #3
yRenegade
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I would use:
- cpu: Intel i7-7700K
- 16gb ddr4 2400MHz ram
- 4tb 7200rpm hdd for video source
- 250gb ssd for system
- win10

I do not know if I should buy xeon cpu. I think this i7 would work well but I don't have experience on it.

Another question is the video card. I am thinking of buying an Nvidia Quadro P1000 or p2000 but it would be nice if the integrated video could play out the streams.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:09 PM   #4
BernH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yRenegade View Post
I would use:
- cpu: Intel i7-7700K
- 16gb ddr4 2400MHz ram
- 4tb 7200rpm hdd for video source
- 250gb ssd for system
- win10

I do not know if I should buy xeon cpu. I think this i7 would work well but I don't have experience on it.

Another question is the video card. I am thinking of buying an Nvidia Quadro P1000 or p2000 but it would be nice if the integrated video could play out the streams.
Xeon CPU's are really no better than i7's. The main differences are that XEON has no built in GPU, and can run on a multi CPU configuration. I7's are often a faster clock speed and if they have the embedded GPU, this can be used for a computer monitor and Intel QuickSync hardware encoding in Edius 7 and later, and some decoding added in Edius 8 and later.

The biggest problem I see with your configuration is your video drive. Based on your description, I assume that this is a single 4TB drive? A single drive may not be fast enough to physically access and transfer the number of streams you are talking about, and you don't say how this drive is connected (USB3, eSATA, SATA, SAS, etc.) It is hard to speculate more without full details.

You have to remember that the heads have to jump around to access the 8 to 10 streams you want to play. Every time the heads jump, there is a small delay while they move, and that will add up. If you have problems, you would be better off either running the cameras off separate drives, maybe 2 or 3 cameras per drive, or if the drive is internal, configure your video drive as a multiple hard drive stripe array (a.k.a. RAID 0) by adding more video drives and striping them together.

Even with these steps taken, you may still have performance issues with that many streams, and may be required to increase the skipped frames setting for multicam.

You also did not mention what kind of files you are playing back. This is a major issue for bandwidth and performance also. More complicated compression/codec schemes usually result in smaller files, which in turn mean that they don't need as much of the drives available bandwidth to stream, but they require more CPU power to decode. It is usually more reliable to use files that are more lightly compressed and allow for more hard drive bandwidth to transfer the files. In this way of thinking, it is normally most beneficial to convert all the files into the native codec of your software, in this case the native codec is the Grass Valley HQ or HQX codecs.

To explain the bandwdith idea, here is an example. The numbers below are not necessarily accurate and are only meant for illustration and ease of demonstrating the math involved.

Lets consider 2 different video file specifications. #1 is an H.264 codec at 20Mbps, and #2 is a GVHQX file at 100Mbps.

As for the hard drive, SATA3 ,as a connection, has maximum speed of 6Gbps, or 6000Mbps.
However, this is only applicable as a theoretical maximum speed given a single sequential data stream over the connection.

An actual single hard drive may only be capable of maximum speed of 4000Mbps. Multi stream, random access, as required for muticam editing is more likely to be much much lower than this as the heads of the drive need to spend a lot of time jumping around. With this in mind, depending on the hard drive, the random access speed may only be in the area of 1300Mbps to 2000Mbps.

For ease of illustration, lets assume your random read speed is 2000Mbps

If you divide the random read speed by the bitrate of your files, the answer is the theoretical maximum number of simultaneous streams your drive should be able to sustain.

2000/20=100 H.264 streams
2000/100=20 GVHQX streams

However, this does not consider the CPU processing required to decode a single stream. Since H.264 is a lot more difficult to decode than HQX, your CPU may not reflect the same numbers.

For example, if decoding a single stream of H264 requires 10% of your CPU, but the HQX stream only requires 2% of the CPU, then the math says that the CPU can only handle 10 H264 streams instead of the 100 available from the hard drive, but can handle 50 HQX streams instead of the 20 available for the single hard drive.

If you spread your data across multiple hard drives, the data bandwidth from the drives is cumulative, so in this example case it is possible reach the 50 HQX stream by adding more drives, but you would never be able to break the 10 H264 stream barrier because of the CPU bottleneck.

Your other question about video cards is a relatively simple one. Edius does not use the graphics card very heavily. It is much more CPU intensive, using the GPU mostly only to draw the desktop and video windows, which is fairly easy to do, so you don't really need another GPU unless you need it for a second monitor or to add nvidia acceleration for some plugin or other software. If this is the case, you would be better off with a GTX series card. Don't waste the money on a quadro card unless you require a specific feature of the quadro that is not offered in the GTX cards. The quadro's are a lot more expensive but the feature set is generally not really required for video editing work, so you can either get a similar performing GTX for less money, or a better performing GTX for the same money.

Also if you are using the internal intel graphics as either your only monitor or one of two in conjunction with the nvidia, you can enable QuickSync decoding for some formats in Edius 8 and 9, that can help you get past that H.264 CPU barrier I mentioned above, since you are passing off the H.264 decode to the GPU.
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Last edited by BernH; 01-14-2018 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:53 PM   #5
noafilm
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I would just use the proxy mode, the largest size proxys (1920x1080) have a remarkable good quality and I hardly can tell them apart from the native files when I switch between proxy and native editing, even with the preview resolution set at 1/2 it still looks very good and with preview quality at 1/2 and in proxymode you"ll cut though 10 streams like butter.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:49 PM   #6
Ron Evans
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If you only have the one hard drive it means you are also writing to it for output too. I have found it advantageous to have many drives for different purposes. In my signature you see I have one drive just for temp files and one for rendered files. As Noa mentioned converting to proxies is a good idea if the files are not very large and would fill up your drive too. It takes a little time of course before you can start to edit but then would be fast for you. In my case one could put the proxy files on the render drive so would be really fast for edit but when one exported the source files would be used and that output too could be directed to the render drive.

So my recommendation get a 1T SSD to add to the system.
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Cameras: GH5S, GH5, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
In my case one could put the proxy files on the render drive
Is it not so that you cannot move the proxyfiles away from the folder that holds the native files?
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noafilm View Post
Is it not so that you cannot move the proxyfiles away from the folder that holds the native files?
Yes I think you are correct. Not tried proxy for a long time as my system is fine with source files. Apologies for not checking first. I will play with a project I have up now and see if there is a way of doing it and report back.
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Cameras: GH5S, GH5, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:30 PM   #9
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I think you might be ok if the files are mpeg-2. If the files are mpeg-4 you are going to need a better CPU and maybe not even then. Tell us the camera and source file info if you can.

Setting up a hard drive RAID would be important as well.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noafilm View Post
Is it not so that you cannot move the proxyfiles away from the folder that holds the native files?
I just confirmed you are correct Noa.

I do not have the same file types but thought I would do a check on my system . I set up a multicam with 12 tracks, files from AX53 and AX100, XAVC-S 60P 8bit 4:2:0 came from 3 shows so ACT1 and ACT2 stacked on top of each other. All placed in VA tracks and with preview at 1/2 in my EDIUS 8.53WG they play fine from a single 6T Seagate drive. MooO systems report CPU as the bottleneck as expected. Buffer seems to respond as usual between 3 and 5 out of 5 most of the time. No filters of course in multicam anyway.
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Intel i7 4790K 4.0Ghz, 16G RAM, Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD7TH, WIN 10, Samsung 850 EVO 500G boot & 500G temp, 6T Project Source , 1T EVO 850 Render Files, MSI GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X 11GB, Quantum Ultrium LTO3 tape drive, Intensity Pro 4K, and 2 LG Bluray burners, NexStar Vantec HX4R and eSata/USB3 hard drive dock, Antec 1200 case, ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K on the Intensity Pro 4K. EDIUS 8.5WG


Cameras: GH5S, GH5, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53
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