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Old 11-14-2011, 04:30 PM   #1
deebee69
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Default Spark Sync?

Ill try and keep this as simple as possible.
I have a slight out of sync problem with the spark card.The new HDMI 1.4 cable runs up to a brand new Samsung Smart 40 " LED TV and I play audio from the Spark card via rca [Red n White ] cables to my studio speakers.
If I turn these speakers off and just rely on the HDMI cable feeding audio to the TV speakers then sync is spot on.If I then turn down the TV speakers and go back to the RCA fed Sparks audio then my monitoring Timeline is ever so slightly out.I can play both audios at the same time and I can here a very slight delay.
Do any of you know if there is an adjustment for delay on the Spark card
or know of an alternative fix
Thanks in advance?
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:16 PM   #2
PaulTV
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It's the processing within the panel, all non tube tv's/monitors have a processing delay which is accomodated for in the HDMI audio processing. When you feed your audio to an external amplifier, with no delay you will find the audio is ahead of the picture, normally by around 25 - 50 m/sec depending on the make of your panel.

Don't mistake this delay for the panel "response" time given in m/sec, say 10 or 5m/sec depending again on the make, this has nothing to do with the processing delay within the unit.

As I work almost completely with music, I have a tube HD monitor for exact grading and sync, but also a Samsung 32 inch monitor and a seperate studio audio monitoring system, this operates with a J.S Technology delay unit which is curently set to 30m/sec to compensate for the Samsung.

Most people using external flat panels are happy with at least a frame audio error, but then most people don't notice 20 or 30 milliseconds

Paul :-)
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:53 PM   #3
dpalomaki
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Latency in the TV, takes the set some time to decode the HDMI. If the TV set has analog audio out (many do) feed that audio to your amplifier. It should be a lot closer.

I suspect leading audio is more disconcerting than lagging audio - it is unnatural. Given that sound travels at about 1000 ft/sec, a 30 ms delay to the sound is akin to listening from 30 feet further away. The brain understands. But in nature sound never arrives before light.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:17 PM   #4
Marc44
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Very interesting !
I understand now why I see a slight out of sync.
I'll try to connect the TV analog out to the amplifier.

Marc
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:02 PM   #5
PaulTV
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It isn't just the decode of the HDMI, its the array itself, as I said, most tv's or monitors with sound, have a delay network built in so that the input sound and image arrive at their respective outputs in sync, when you seperately amplify the audio, the difference in processing times is evident.


Paul :-)
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulTV View Post
It isn't just the decode of the HDMI, its the array itself, as I said, most tv's or monitors with sound, have a delay network built in so that the input sound and image arrive at their respective outputs in sync, when you seperately amplify the audio, the difference in processing times is evident.
Paul :-)
OK
and if the Spark HDMI leads audio + video to TV, Image + audio should be in sync in the TV (internal processing).
And, then, the TV output audio (cinch usually) should be in sync also.
Finally, the audio output of the TV must be connected to the amplifier.

Currently, the lag, on my system, is probably due to the fact the HDspark HDMI is connected to TV (image) and the HDspark audio connector (cinch) is connected directly to the amplifier.

Marc
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:52 PM   #7
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what happens if you connect the HDMI to the amp in and from the amp out to TV? 99% of amps have several HDMI inputs now
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:09 AM   #8
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HDMI cable/connection itself does not introduce delay- it's device at the end.

If you have good TV and amp (and HDMI 1.3+) than there is something called LipSync. TV reports to the amp how much it takes for it to process video and amp delays audio- so at the end all stays in sync. Our Kuro plasma and Pioneer amp work perfectly with this option- Kuro does about about 1 frame delay.
Note that not every TV (or amp) has this feature, but quite few do and it's worth to turn it on.
Other way is to find delay by eye and set amp to delay audio this amount. This is not very precise and if you change TV setting it may not be accurate anymore- the more processing you turn on in TV the bigger delay is. Most TVs have about 1 frame delay (eg 20ms-40ms).
Most broadcast monitors have delay <1 frame or have compensation build in for audio output/speakers.

There was a nice site with PC monitors delay- some have very small (5ms), some something like 2 frames, so quite a big difference.

Last edited by Andrzej; 11-15-2011 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deebee69 View Post
Ill try and keep this as simple as possible.
I have a slight out of sync problem with the spark card.The new HDMI 1.4 cable runs up to a brand new Samsung Smart 40 " LED TV and I play audio from the Spark card via rca [Red n White ] cables to my studio speakers.
If I turn these speakers off and just rely on the HDMI cable feeding audio to the TV speakers then sync is spot on.If I then turn down the TV speakers and go back to the RCA fed Sparks audio then my monitoring Timeline is ever so slightly out.I can play both audios at the same time and I can here a very slight delay.
Do any of you know if there is an adjustment for delay on the Spark card
or know of an alternative fix
Thanks in advance?
Spark itself can't introduce delay- if it does, it's massive bug and GV should fix it. Video/audio sync should be passed from Edius timeline to Spark and than to HDMI cable unchanged (and I believe that's the way how it's). It's end device which may introduce de-sync. That's what is happening in your case- also sending video and audio by "different ways" does not help neither.

Same applies to monitoring audio through PC device- quite often there is de-sync introduce by crap audio card in PC.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:23 AM   #10
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some monitors also have RCA audio outputs, you could connect these to the amp instead of the Spark RCA
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