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Old 07-06-2015, 12:13 AM   #1
7hbg
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Default Chroma keyers

Hi All,

I just re-installed my green screen and did some test shots with it.
It was good, but I do not have any other available to EDIUS plug-ins for chroma keying, and was wandering how good are they?
Is one really better than the other, or is it just a case of one knowing the software to be able to get the right results from it.

I thought, that if I post a good green screen file so others could give it their best shot, it would be a good exercise and interesting discussion.

For those that are interested, I propose to take a still shot just out your window and chroma key it as a background with my footage.
I would love to see results from as many locations as possible. Also, tell us what plug-in you were using and if there was anything special you had to do.
I am sure everyone will find it interesting.

Here are single frames from each take: Tiff1 and Tiff2 (each frame is 19MB, tiff, 16bits) if you want to work with stills.
Or here is 20 seconds of Canopus HQX encoded mov (183MB, 422) ready for you to just add the water…, I mean background ;)
And here is my attempt at it, with background from Vancouver, BC rwt1 (37MB, mp4) using stock EDIUS chroma keyer.

You can use the tiffs to create a picture to share it back with us or use the video if you have a way to post it back for everyone to see.

BTW: I am not concerned about matching the colors (so it looks like it belongs there, that’s color matching), I am looking for edges, transparences, spills, etc.
For instance, in my test: I am having difficulty removing the green tinge from tips of her heir.

I hope to see few different plugins here.
Thanks
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:38 AM   #2
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I can give you some general rules.

Good green screen keys are about lighting and presenter position relative to the screen.

The presenter should be at least 2 feet or just under a metre away from the green screen to avoid green "splash back" from the screen or to avoid shadows, and preferably with a fill light on a dimmer from above the screen to light the back of her head. (it gives a warm glow 3D effect in a 2D plane).

Think about it this way. Use one set of lights to evenly light the screen and another set of lights to light the presenter as if the green screen wasn't there.

Edges are generally governed by the quality of the video camera 4:2:0 will not give as cleaner edge as a camcorder that records in 4:2:2 as the colour resolution is much better in 4:2:2.

Fuzzy or "wild hair" can be more of a problem especially with the presenter too close to the green screen and Robus Key is better than the Edius one at softening the edges, which can help in difficult situations.

Mike
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Old 07-07-2015, 02:17 AM   #3
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Ok if I take your two tiffs I can do better with the Edius key than you have, and of course the hair is worst case as the ends will be hidden by the body in practice.

Edius key settings

Cancel colour
Range 27
Power 50

Y=127
U=102
V=83

Chroma
Base=189
Range 25

Luma

Base 76
Range 64

Soft Edge checked

Auto tracking enable
skip Line checked
skip frame not checked.

The green screen is not evenly lit in the small head shot and to do best for the hair the key fails on the background, so in the Edius keyer a compromise would have to be reached between hair and background key although you can always add a mask in the Edius keyer.

Interesting that the PNG create still with the Edius keyer creates a black background and using the Robus key it creates a white one however if I create a background clip it saves a still correctly.


The Edius key is I would describe as more large chunky areas and Robus key is better at fine detail.

There are 4 png files attached

0000 and 0004 are using the Edius Key

0001 and 0002 are using Robus Key

Robus key will play in Real Time in system 4 in my signature which it didn't before I got the GTX980Ti GPU.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Still0707_00000.jpg (63.7 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Still0707_00001.jpg (61.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Still0707_00002.jpg (67.4 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Still0707_00004.jpg (59.2 KB, 15 views)
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Last edited by createmedia; 07-07-2015 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by createmedia View Post
I can give you some general rules.

Good green screen keys are about lighting and presenter position relative to the screen.

The presenter should be at least 2 feet or just under a metre away from the green screen to avoid green "splash back" from the screen or to avoid shadows, and preferably with a fill light on a dimmer from above the screen to light the back of her head. (it gives a warm glow 3D effect in a 2D plane).

Think about it this way. Use one set of lights to evenly light the screen and another set of lights to light the presenter as if the green screen wasn't there.

Edges are generally governed by the quality of the video camera 4:2:0 will not give as cleaner edge as a camcorder that records in 4:2:2 as the colour resolution is much better in 4:2:2.

Fuzzy or "wild hair" can be more of a problem especially with the presenter too close to the green screen and Robus Key is better than the Edius one at softening the edges, which can help in difficult situations.

Mike
Hi Mike,
Lighting in general is as you described: front for the talent, middle for the screen and backlight for the highlights (since '85 I have done few chroma key setups ;) ).

As for the tiffs, the files are 4:4:4 color sampling with 16bits for each color channel (that's why the files are 19MB each).
Can't say the same for the mov, HQX will only save 4:2:2.

That is why you maybe getting better keys from the stills. In my test I used HQX and that maybe weakness of my test output (wanted to use the same files I made available to others).
Regarding your comment about "...uneven lighting...", I am not at all concerned for two reasons:
  1. The shot is a wide shot and it captures the edge of the green screen that would never be intended to be used. It would always be masked off as you suggested.
  2. It is "chroma key", as long as the background color stays the same (chroma vector), luma should be able to very to some degree without effecting the key.
Click to Enlarge
Vectorscope view of the tiff with the green screen in the circle.

Yes, I heard about Robuskey and would love to see the key in action but with a background, because black or white does not show me any details.
Also I would never key to a solid color, I would just shoot it on that background for number of reasons.
But to be fair, I definitely see more details in your Robuskey examples.

Thank you for taking the time.
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Last edited by GrassValley_SL; 07-07-2015 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:39 PM   #5
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I have taken your movie and put a pic in the background.

The bottom of the hair was very difficult that is about the best I can get it using Robus key.

It is here

https://youtu.be/EIwI4yfkD3E

Mike
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Old 07-08-2015, 07:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by createmedia View Post
I have taken your movie and put a pic in the background.

The bottom of the hair was very difficult that is about the best I can get it using Robus key.

It is here

https://youtu.be/EIwI4yfkD3E

Mike
Hi Mike,
If I draw a clock face centered on her nose, from 7 to 5 o'clock I have no problems (although, it is considerably less detail then your stills).
The rest (bottom) I think could use more gradient in the alpha.
In preparation of my test output, I did noticed that it was much more difficult to work with dark background than light background and this just proves to me that it was not just me.

Thank you
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:02 AM   #7
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Robuskey has a 30 day trial period. Just go here and download it:
http://www.isp.co.jp/en/products/robuskey/index.html

This way you can see what it does first hand.
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