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Old 02-03-2012, 02:33 PM   #35
Red Union Films
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,029

Hi Anton and Andrew.

You both seem to have got me on this one, with the tiny issue of effects such as dissolves having an issue/difference when being applied to progressive material in a progressive project that has been changed on the the fly to an interlaced project.

I have to say that I am pretty good at noticing things and have never seen this, but If I am doing something wrong or giving bad advice out, then I really should address it. I monitor progressive and interlaced at the same time, one CRT one plasma and of course the computer monitor.

My assumption would have been that if this difference you talk about is really there. Then my logic would lead me to believe that applying at source, as in the project/timeline, or rendering to a progressive master, then doing it to the render in an interlaced project, would be the same. There by both giving the same results to both outcomes.

Again, even if the dissolve is being applied at a temporal level in an interlaced project. This in my mind should not make any difference to a progressive source, as it too at this point has the same temporal characteristics as the switched protect settings. As in for PAL. The temporal change is there but not visually noticed between the fiftieth of a second between each field, as the source frame had no movement due to its progressive nature.

Anton. You pointed out to Andrew that what he is saying is what you had already said earlier.
"You will have to export timeline to Canopus HQ fine and then start a new 50i project, then add the file and export to Blu-ray"
Although later you implied that statement to have been an incorrect one based on the fact that a 25P project can be live switched, and nothing to do with effects being temporally applied to progressive sources.
"yes, sorry, some projects can be changed to interlaced" I am a little confused on this now.

Any chance either of you could do a downloadable project to show this tiny issue in action on dissolves or other effects it may happen to, thanks.

Hi Phil.

The holly grail of the film look from video, is something I try for as well. The main difference as you know, is the progressive format. But beyond that things like film speed and shutter speed/angle, film type, light etc. all play their part. Film reacts to light differently than a video sensor, and the chemical processing all have factors.

I find that altering the gamma of the video helps quite a bit, and altering contrast and colour in post. Most nearly all that would make the differences is usually a post job. Some video cameras are better than others at producing the film look straight out of the box. If you ever find a cheap one, let me know :)

There are a lot of people on this forum who prefer the interlaced look and the smoother motion of higher frame rates. But I'm with you on the 24 frame film look, it may be lacking in certain things, but I grew up with it and love it. Any documentary type of stuff that I shoot, will get shot progressive as well.

Here is a link to an example of some stuff. The project is 25P 1080, I have saved this with E3D so hope the EZP is compatible with E6. If not or you have an earlier version of Edius, you can just access the videos as they are HQ files. The clips a more compressed than I would master at, to shrink them for the web.

Sequence 1 has two alternating clips of the same thing. Clip 1 is pre-processed and clip 2 is post-processing. Sequence 2 has just one clip with it's final grade.

Everything is done inside Edius. You should catch up with the Edius grading that one of the Matt's from here on the forum does, they are the best examples I have seen out of Edius. You can also use other tools like Magic Bullet, I think, and some of the Boris stuff.

I am not saying that my examples look just like film. But the processing does give them something other than a video look. Plus I go quite heavy handed for pop promos, usually the nature of the beast. As you can tell, I love high contrast and pushing the gamma, not very subtly either :)

BTW, there is a ton of effects in these videos, tried live switching from progressive to interlaced and did not see any difference on the effects. Maybe they are just more subtle than myself.


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