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-   -   Thoughts on new computer... laptop versus pc (http://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43796)

DMS Video 09-17-2019 02:51 AM

Thoughts on new computer... laptop versus pc
 
I'm filming a lot more 4K content and my current laptop pc (specs below) is struggling to do the job. It works but it's not efficient. I'm in the early stages of considering my next machine. My question is... are there any high end laptops out there that can truly handle multiple layers of 4K footage with filters and the occasional 5K clip? I film a lot of Drone footage so 5K is an option. Should I just forget about it and consider some type of beastly desktop? Specifics and/or links would be very helpful. Cheers

PS (a little off topic) I have an unopened version of Edius probably somewhere in the version 6-7 zone. Can I use that as an upgrade path on an additional machine?

BernH 09-17-2019 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMS Video (Post 324165)
I'm filming a lot more 4K content and my current laptop pc (specs below) is struggling to do the job. It works but it's not efficient. I'm in the early stages of considering my next machine. My question is... are there any high end laptops out there that can truly handle multiple layers of 4K footage with filters and the occasional 5K clip? I film a lot of Drone footage so 5K is an option. Should I just forget about it and consider some type of beastly desktop? Specifics and/or links would be very helpful. Cheers

PS (a little off topic) I have an unopened version of Edius probably somewhere in the version 6-7 zone. Can I use that as an upgrade path on an additional machine?

Laptops generally are less powerful than a desktop. This is done to try to use less power from batteries and run cooler so things don't overheat in the confines space of the laptop.

If you want to edit multiple streams of 4K and higher in real time with Edius, you really should consider a desktop system, with as fast a processor as you can get, probably also with quicksync capabilities so the intel GPU can help with decode, as a lot of 4K material is either H264 or H265 encoded.

Keep in mind that each 4K stream as akin to trying to play back 4 heavily compressed HD streams simultaneously, so multiple 4K's would be like 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, etc. of these heavily compressed HD streams. This requires serious CPU/GPU decode horsepower, and fast enough drives to sustain the bandwidth, that are also large enough to hold all the large 4K files. Conversion to HQX can reduce the required decode power, but will require even larger and faster drives. The drive requirements are also a strike against a laptop, as you would likely need either a large direct attached SSD, or an HDD raid array to handle the the size and bandwidth required for multiple streams. Anything in an external chassis capable of connecting to a laptop probably would not allow the full bandwidth of the drive to be used, unless the chassis is Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.1, or USB-C, all three of which are available but not common on current pc laptops, but there is no guarantee that the chassis will supply full bandwidth either.

The last I checked on desktop processors, the Intel I7 9900K's seemed to be the best out there to allow for both CPU and Quicksync GPU decode. Perhaps some other uses can chime in on this point.

I don't know how many 4K streams users are seeing from these systems, but I would be surprised if they are getting more than 3 sustained streams for any kind of duration (more likely 2 real time streams sustained, probably 1 if using anything beyond basic effects and transitions). Once again, perhaps some other uses can chime in on this point.

Jerry 09-17-2019 03:07 PM

Hey Dave, been a while. From your post you give me the impression that you would prefer a laptop.

What you need then is a desktop replacement. They are available, but get your wallet out.

I would check out Sager laptops.
https://www.sagernotebook.com/Best-Gaming-Laptop/
You can customize the laptop to what you need.

The 9900k is available. In October the 9900kf is being released that will do 5Ghz on all cores(no hyperthreading).
You should be able to use your version to upgrade to 9.5 with the additional plus of getting Edius 10 free.
Also look at the Alienware 51-M. It has some parts that can be swapped out after sale. One is the GPU.

DMS Video 09-18-2019 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BernH (Post 324170)
Laptops generally are less powerful than a desktop. This is done to try to use less power from batteries and run cooler so things don't overheat in the confines space of the laptop.

If you want to edit multiple streams of 4K and higher in real time with Edius, you really should consider a desktop system, with as fast a processor as you can get, probably also with quicksync capabilities so the intel GPU can help with decode, as a lot of 4K material is either H264 or H265 encoded.

Keep in mind that each 4K stream as akin to trying to play back 4 heavily compressed HD streams simultaneously, so multiple 4K's would be like 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, etc. of these heavily compressed HD streams. This requires serious CPU/GPU decode horsepower, and fast enough drives to sustain the bandwidth, that are also large enough to hold all the large 4K files. Conversion to HQX can reduce the required decode power, but will require even larger and faster drives. The drive requirements are also a strike against a laptop, as you would likely need either a large direct attached SSD, or an HDD raid array to handle the the size and bandwidth required for multiple streams. Anything in an external chassis capable of connecting to a laptop probably would not allow the full bandwidth of the drive to be used, unless the chassis is Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.1, or USB-C, all three of which are available but not common on current pc laptops, but there is no guarantee that the chassis will supply full bandwidth either.

The last I checked on desktop processors, the Intel I7 9900K's seemed to be the best out there to allow for both CPU and Quicksync GPU decode. Perhaps some other uses can chime in on this point.

I don't know how many 4K streams users are seeing from these systems, but I would be surprised if they are getting more than 3 sustained streams for any kind of duration (more likely 2 real time streams sustained, probably 1 if using anything beyond basic effects and transitions). Once again, perhaps some other uses can chime in on this point.

Thanks for such a detailed response. I'm going to dig-in to it after I finish editing later tonight.

antonsvideo 09-18-2019 02:22 AM

Keep in mind that all cores are often used at 100% and it is way easier to keep such a CPU cool with water cooling on a desktop

DMS Video 09-18-2019 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry (Post 324175)
Hey Dave, been a while. From your post you give me the impression that you would prefer a laptop.

What you need then is a desktop replacement. They are available, but get your wallet out.

I would check out Sager laptops.
https://www.sagernotebook.com/Best-Gaming-Laptop/
You can customize the laptop to what you need.

The 9900k is available. In October the 9900kf is being released that will do 5Ghz on all cores(no hyperthreading).
You should be able to use your version to upgrade to 9.5 with the additional plus of getting Edius 10 free.
Also look at the Alienware 51-M. It has some parts that can be swapped out after sale. One is the GPU.

Hi Jerry. It has been a while. Hope you're doing well. I think in a somewhat perfect world I would prefer a laptop but I'm leaning towards a desktop again so I can have more power. I'm in the very early stages of just seeing what's going on in the world of computers nowadays. Then I have to see what I can manage that doesn't affect potentially retiring at some point, lol. I'll be contacting and old friend at some point to get his thoughts as well. Cheers

DMS Video 09-18-2019 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonsvideo (Post 324197)
Keep in mind that all cores are often used at 100% and it is way easier to keep such a CPU cool with water cooling on a desktop

I can't argue with that

Thor 09-19-2019 12:54 AM

And towers have a lot of room to customize additional components, etc., and it's easier to support multiple monitors.

I've never used a laptop for editing, so maybe I'm biased!

I think the average desktop lasts longer than the average laptop.

DMS Video 09-19-2019 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor (Post 324241)
And towers have a lot of room to customize additional components, etc., and it's easier to support multiple monitors.

I've never used a laptop for editing, so maybe I'm biased!

I think the average desktop lasts longer than the average laptop.

This last couple of years I've done most of my editing on a laptop. I should have gone with a desktop so lesson learned.

David Clarke 09-19-2019 10:32 AM

I use a laptop all the time but you have to accept that they are not as powerful as desktops and more costly to fix. In addition to the above I would say:
  • The laptops that have 9900K desktop processors don't generally have Quick Sync and QS makes quite a huge difference if using H.264 footage.
  • The ones I have used with 9900K and a good nVidia graphics card are actually pretty noisey.
  • Getting a decent i/o device is harder. I have had issues with BM's USB3 devices on many laptops. Thunderbolt is better but still times there are problems.
For me the big advantage is I can use it anywhere but when back at base I can plug in 3 PC screens and a keyboard and use it like a regular PC.


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