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  • Are Plug-ins necessary or "nice-to-have"?

    I assume I am not alone in limbo whilst New Blue (and perhaps others) sort out their products so they work with Edius v6.5 and wonder a) what the GV policy is and b) how it is justified.

    When I purchased v.6 it came bundled with what appear to be two NB Video Essentials products as well as other companies' plug-ins. That would suggest that GV considers these plug-ins to be a valuable even necessary part of the overall Edius operation - and frankly I'd agree.

    However, with the upgrade to v6.5 GV appear to be treating the plug-in manufacturers as secondary suppliers offering "nice-to-have" but not essential extras to the basic Edius function.

    If v6.5 had incorporated features which make the plug-ins redundant that would have been inconvenient (because we'd have to learn a new workflow) but not a disaster, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

    What makes it worse is that the old plug-ins don't even work albeit less efficiently with the new version. As a result we now have programmes which are on pause whilst NB catches up and makes its products compatible with v6.5.

    Is it too much to expect GV to keep the favoured plug-in manufacturers in their development loop so that the new Edius version would not effectively start out as a compromise - the addition of new and valued GV native features but lacking what GV formerly presented as "necessary" plug-ins?

    Equally, for the secondary suppliers aren't blameless in all this, could NB stop mailing me with blandishments and deals to buy products which they know won't work with the current version of the parent program?

    Finally could I ask GV to a) make sure out-of-date compatibility charts are taken down and b) make clear in cases like today's in which certain products are only compatible with certain versions of their product, which versions they're referring to?

    I should emphasise that I remain a strong and generally satisfied user - it's just that when you make a great product people always expect it to be better.
    Edius 6.52; i2500K; Gigabyte Z68P-DS3; 8Gb RAM; 124Gb SSD for system, 5x1Tb HDD on board; 1Tb & 500Gb HDD off-board; 2Tb RAID1 out-board; BCF2000; Shuttle Pro2; Radeon 5 series dual display, HD Spark, HD monitor. Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, New Blue Fx Art Blends, Video Essentials 2, 3, 4, Titler Pro 1 and ColourFast, ProDad Defishr.

  • #2
    There are no outdated compatibility lists.
    The compatibility list for EDIUS 6 is valid and is clearly marked as for EDIUS 6.

    We don't have a pdf compatibility yet for EDIUS 6.5
    Current working plug-ins for EDIUS 6.5 are listed here:
    http://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/s...48&postcount=3

    and updated as more plug-in get certified.

    I also think that you must have missed the announcements , the PDF on the forum and the website stating that plug-ins from version 6 would not work in EDIUS 6.5 :)
    Last edited by GrassValley_SL; 09-07-2012, 03:58 AM.
    Steve

    Get the Latest version of EDIUS:
    EDIUS Download (grassvalley.com)

    Please don't send me Private Messages for support. Contact Grass Valley support

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    • #3
      Steve, first my apologies, by compatability list I was referring to the stickies on the forum, clearly you were referring to "official" lists.

      In fairness, you have ignored the main element of my posting which I thought was fundamentally rhetorical - how important the plug-ins are. The lists were not the nub of my posting, rather how much better for everyone, GV, the plug-in suppliers and the customers if GV and the suppliers could work more closely on development and thus avoid or at least reduce the interregnum between a new version of Edius and plug-ins which work with it.

      I write this as a generally satisfied customer and a supporter who only wishes for the best possible product.
      Edius 6.52; i2500K; Gigabyte Z68P-DS3; 8Gb RAM; 124Gb SSD for system, 5x1Tb HDD on board; 1Tb & 500Gb HDD off-board; 2Tb RAID1 out-board; BCF2000; Shuttle Pro2; Radeon 5 series dual display, HD Spark, HD monitor. Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, New Blue Fx Art Blends, Video Essentials 2, 3, 4, Titler Pro 1 and ColourFast, ProDad Defishr.

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      • #4
        Im sure its all down to dollars these days.
        System Asus WS Z390 Pro MB, CPU i9 9900K, 32gb 3000mhz Ram, EVGA GTX1070TI, BM IP4K Win 10, BD Burner 1 Evo 840 and 4 Hotswap caddies
        Plugins Vistitle 2.8, TP7, NB TFX5
        Monitors Samsung 32 inch tv as main 1 LG M2350D,1 D2343 1 DM2350D as output to (3D) IP4K, PXW X70,Canon FX400

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        • #5
          I'm not quite sure what you mean John. Assuming we agree that the plug-ins are an integral part of Edius's value then cooperating in development would be beneficial for everyone.

          I'm not a software designer but my understanding from the Liquid/Nextgen fiasco is that the core engines of the various brands of NLE get developed in unique ways so that they're soon quite different from each other. Thus for GV say to show NB what new features 6.5 will have inside it so they can develop the plug-ins simultaneously, wouldn't be jeopardising their new version because Adobe or AVID might, just might, get to know about them. In any case, my guess is that the plug-in suppliers have more to lose than gain by behaving immorally. Their best interests are served by having good relations with all the NLEs.

          The distrust and bitterness Avid drew from the botched manner in which they hung Liquid loyalists around for two years or more should remind all NLE developers how easy it is to lose a clientbase's commitment.
          Edius 6.52; i2500K; Gigabyte Z68P-DS3; 8Gb RAM; 124Gb SSD for system, 5x1Tb HDD on board; 1Tb & 500Gb HDD off-board; 2Tb RAID1 out-board; BCF2000; Shuttle Pro2; Radeon 5 series dual display, HD Spark, HD monitor. Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, New Blue Fx Art Blends, Video Essentials 2, 3, 4, Titler Pro 1 and ColourFast, ProDad Defishr.

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          • #6
            I meant its all about costs and profits for GV, and Viability for GV and the developers. Im sure there is an obvious need for plugins and different users prefer different developers. Its very easy to have too many of them. Its a small market for developers compared to Adobe and they dont give you any bundled plugins either
            System Asus WS Z390 Pro MB, CPU i9 9900K, 32gb 3000mhz Ram, EVGA GTX1070TI, BM IP4K Win 10, BD Burner 1 Evo 840 and 4 Hotswap caddies
            Plugins Vistitle 2.8, TP7, NB TFX5
            Monitors Samsung 32 inch tv as main 1 LG M2350D,1 D2343 1 DM2350D as output to (3D) IP4K, PXW X70,Canon FX400

            Comment


            • #7
              Maybe you could look at it another way!

              Just think if GV waited for all the Plug-in vendors to have the plug-ins finished before they released the next version. Not a best for anyone. Whereas GV can't crack a whip to the vendors backside if they are dragging their feet for whatever reason GV has to move forward.

              The included bundled plug-ins were always referenced as being free to my knowledge. So GV hasn't taken anything away that we paid for in my mind.

              It is always up to the end user when to upgrade to the next version. If the plug-ins are essential(pun) then wait.

              Seems quite simple to me.
              Edius 8 Workgroup, Intel 3770K, Asus P8Z77-V Motherboard, 32GB DDR3 1600 ram, SSD for C, external Raid box with WE RE4 1TB drives Raid 0 for video assets. Overclocked 4.3ghz, Asus GTX 660 ti, water cooled system. Windows 10 Professional 64bit

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              • #8
                Originally posted by burnandreturn View Post
                Just think if GV waited for all the Plug-in vendors to have the plug-ins finished before they released the next version. Not a best for anyone. Whereas GV can't crack a whip to the vendors backside if they are dragging their feet for whatever reason GV has to move forward.
                It would be wrong to suggest this and I didn't, merely that the plug-ins should ideally be available when the new version of the NLE is.

                Originally posted by burnandreturn View Post
                The included bundled plug-ins were always referenced as being free to my knowledge. So GV hasn't taken anything away that we paid for in my mind.
                Actually they're described as a bonus which leaves their part in the value for which we paid a moot point.

                Originally posted by burnandreturn View Post
                It is always up to the end user when to upgrade to the next version. If the plug-ins are essential(pun) then wait.
                Of course you're right; my suggestion was to remove the need to choose or at least reduce the time to wait.
                Edius 6.52; i2500K; Gigabyte Z68P-DS3; 8Gb RAM; 124Gb SSD for system, 5x1Tb HDD on board; 1Tb & 500Gb HDD off-board; 2Tb RAID1 out-board; BCF2000; Shuttle Pro2; Radeon 5 series dual display, HD Spark, HD monitor. Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, New Blue Fx Art Blends, Video Essentials 2, 3, 4, Titler Pro 1 and ColourFast, ProDad Defishr.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Philip Howells View Post
                  Steve, first my apologies, by compatability list I was referring to the stickies on the forum, clearly you were referring to "official" lists.

                  In fairness, you have ignored the main element of my posting which I thought was fundamentally rhetorical - how important the plug-ins are. The lists were not the nub of my posting, rather how much better for everyone, GV, the plug-in suppliers and the customers if GV and the suppliers could work more closely on development and thus avoid or at least reduce the interregnum between a new version of Edius and plug-ins which work with it.

                  I write this as a generally satisfied customer and a supporter who only wishes for the best possible product.
                  Sorry but your assumption is so far from the truth it is not even funny.
                  We are working closely with third-party manufacturers. We have explained that in many posts. This has even been posted by some third-party manufactures. In the case of New Blue Marcus (rep from New Blue) has posted on this on our forum

                  Use of plug-ins depends on the person.
                  Some don't use them at all. Some use plug-ins only from manufacturer A and not B. Others use only from B and not A and so on.

                  Anyway If you had read some of the posts you would have a better idea of what is going on. We have changed a lot in EDIUS 6.5 effects engine to put it simple. Some engineering schedules, from companies, have resulted in faster compatibility. Other companies need a bit more time to get their plug-ins up to speed.

                  Also it is also best to contact the manufacturer of the plug-ins directly .
                  Steve

                  Get the Latest version of EDIUS:
                  EDIUS Download (grassvalley.com)

                  Please don't send me Private Messages for support. Contact Grass Valley support

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Are Plug-ins necessary or "nice-to-have"?
                    Depends on what you are editing, what artistic effects you are trying to achieve, and perhaps how conveniently you want to achieve them.

                    You may find a plug-in, or a build-in effect essential to your work whereas I might never use it in mine.

                    The product lifecycle decisions, including marketing and desired price-point, drive what is built-in and what is left to third party developers. Adding a native capability to Edius has to be paid for through Edius sales only. But if that capability is a third party plug-in that works in many NLEs the cost for the core plugin development cost is spread out over a larger pool of users. Only the interface to the various NLE APIs is an added cost.

                    Bundling decisions are marketing decisons on the part of the bundler (GV) and the third party developer. The objective being to expand the user base for the third party developer and attract sales to the bundler (GV). The "Lite" or "SE" versions of plug-ins can be effective in this regard. The trick of course is to coordinate development cycles to bring all related proiducts to market at the same time - no easy task. And it is not unusual for some small companies to outsource coding, especially on this era of take-overs, product line splits, and partial sales. Company "A" may own the rights to the product, but spun-out company "B" may have the coding team that develops it. (Is ProCoder a possible example of this?) And consider how Pinnacle killed Hollywood Effects as a plug-in for other NLEs.

                    And all developers have to meet payroll out of sales, so development priority is placed where resulting sales will likely be gretest and fastest. If Edius users are the largest community of NB users and most likely upgraders, it will receive plug-in development priority.

                    If ILM wants a special custom plug-in effect for a major studio project they can likely afford the $100,000 (or what ever) to have it custom developed and deployed in a hurry. But if I want the same effect for the $20 I can afford at least 5,000 or so other people will need to be standing by ready to buy it too.
                    Last edited by dpalomaki; 09-07-2012, 12:39 PM.

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                    • #11
                      You have a very accurate idea of how stuff works. :)
                      Steve

                      Get the Latest version of EDIUS:
                      EDIUS Download (grassvalley.com)

                      Please don't send me Private Messages for support. Contact Grass Valley support

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GrassValley_SL View Post
                        Sorry but your assumption is so far from the truth it is not even funny.
                        We are working closely with third-party manufacturers. We have explained that in many posts. This has even been posted by some third-party manufactures. In the case of New Blue Marcus (rep from New Blue) has posted on this on our forum

                        Use of plug-ins depends on the person.
                        Some don't use them at all. Some use plug-ins only from manufacturer A and not B. Others use only from B and not A and so on.

                        Anyway If you had read some of the posts you would have a better idea of what is going on. We have changed a lot in EDIUS 6.5 effects engine to put it simple. Some engineering schedules, from companies, have resulted in faster compatibility. Other companies need a bit more time to get their plug-ins up to speed.

                        Also it is also best to contact the manufacturer of the plug-ins directly .
                        Steve, I'm sorry you feel you have to write as if I was a hostile - I've emphasised throughout this exchange that I am a supporter and generally happy user of Edius. It feels as if I've inadvertently touched a sore spot; if so it was unintentional.

                        Although you evidently don't think so, I've also watched the various posts develop. I'm therefore pleased to learn that I'm wrong and that you and the various plug-in suppliers are harmoniously working hard together. Accept my apologies, and my gratitude that all is well in the kingdom. I shall wait patiently for what you correctly point out affects me but not everyone else.

                        Finally, I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I did try to contact the plug-in supplier in whose products I'm interested but so far they haven't had time to reply.

                        Thanks for your help.
                        Edius 6.52; i2500K; Gigabyte Z68P-DS3; 8Gb RAM; 124Gb SSD for system, 5x1Tb HDD on board; 1Tb & 500Gb HDD off-board; 2Tb RAID1 out-board; BCF2000; Shuttle Pro2; Radeon 5 series dual display, HD Spark, HD monitor. Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, New Blue Fx Art Blends, Video Essentials 2, 3, 4, Titler Pro 1 and ColourFast, ProDad Defishr.

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