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  • 5400vs.7200prm

    I am configuring a new computer and while I do my editing on external drives, was wondering if the hard drive speed of the computer is at all still relevant. The machine I am configuring is Sony i7, with 12 gig of Ram but its a 5400rpm drive.
    Thoughts on this please . Thank you

  • #2
    Where did you get the idea hard drive speed was irrelevant? The faster a
    Mechanical. drive spins, the faster information flows. That is why SAS drives
    have a 15,000 rpm mfg speed and cost what they do. It is like
    the SCSI Cheetah's from Segate when that I/O was king.
    If you are using 5400 rpm drives, even as external drives, your
    throughput is reduced.
    Hopefully, you are using either ESATA or USB 3.0 for your external
    drives interface.

    While all compressed codecs use the CPU more than the drives to
    Edit with, a good drive subsystem is instrumental in other functions that
    you use in day to day editing. If you use HQ, HQX, or even AVC-INTRA
    these use both cpu and hard drive throughput to get efficiency.
    Jerry
    Six Gill DV
    www.sgdvtutorials.com
    If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

    Vistitle YouTube Channel
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

    Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
    http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


    Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
    Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Jerry View Post
      Where did you get the idea hard drive speed was irrelevant? The faster a
      Mechanical. drive spins, the faster information flows. That is why SAS drives
      have a 15,000 rpm mfg speed and cost what they do. It is like
      the SCSI Cheetah's from Segate when that I/O was king.
      Just a side note:

      The rpm is one thing, the firmware is another. Expensive disks to be used in a Raid setup usually have modified firmwares to get the most out of them.

      Comment


      • #4
        I use external USB powered 1TB hard drives that run at 5400rpm to edit on. My "irrelevant" question was referring to --the importance or not of the speed of the main computers hard drive in this scenario if my editing is indeed done on slower external drives and/or drives that are connected via usb 2.0.--Do I benefit from a faster C drive in Edius, if in fact I am editing on a slower external drive? That was really my question. Thank you
        Last edited by merrick61; 10-26-2012, 03:30 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Faster RPM gets the head over the desired spot on the disk faster (perhaps as much as 33% faster), so it nets to some improvement in system performance. (But that is a isolated measure based on the latency of a spinning disk.) To the extent the system, operating system, and applicaiton software is going to disk for overlays/dll and temp storage the faster drive is better.

          But whether or not you will notice a difference depends on the specifics of your system, how it is configured, what you are doing, what else is running thata access the drives, and what the choke points are in data flow and processing. The speed issue might not be apparent when editing, say (pick a number) 2 streams, but migh be with 3.

          Comment


          • #6
            Merrick,

            You have a good computer. Feeding it slow drives will negate the point in having bought an i7 12GB. 5400 is near slowest HDD. It's also called a "Green" drive because it's slow rpm uses less power and is ideal for a backup external drive. Using that as an edit disk is like giving a formula 1 car a 4-cup gas tank; it'll hold the system back from performing at its peak.

            7200 is standard, just like a 14 gallon tank is roughly standard on a car.

            Like Jerry said, usb 3.0 or ESATA interface, or firewire. Those will allow the throughput of the drive to reach the system, since you're using an external drive. Usb 2.0 constricts the data flow soo small, it's even less than the output of a 5400 drive. So you won't even see a 5400's peak potential with 2.0.

            Going cheap (cause green drives are cheaper) will thoroughly annoy you over time to the point that you'll end up buying a 7200 drive anyway after you've wisened to the technology. So what will you do?
            Asus Crosshair IV Formula, Phenom 1090T CPU, 16BG RAM, Win7 64, 1TB SSHD Boot, 2x1TB Raid-0 Store, 2TB Print, 1TB print, 250mm fan. Edius 6.07, CS6, Spotify free.

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            • #7
              The fastest c: Boot drive you can afford is the way to go on a new computer. OS will load fast, application will load faster and any swap activity will be faster. In order of speed SSD, 15000, 10000, 7200 and I wouldn't use a 5400 for the boot drive.

              Ron Evans
              Ron Evans

              Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

              ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 18


              Cameras: GH5S, GH6, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Stephen Jay View Post
                Merrick,

                You have a good computer. Feeding it slow drives will negate the point in having bought an i7 12GB. 5400 is near slowest HDD. It's also called a "Green" drive because it's slow rpm uses less power and is ideal for a backup external drive. Using that as an edit disk is like giving a formula 1 car a 4-cup gas tank; it'll hold the system back from performing at its peak.

                7200 is standard, just like a 14 gallon tank is roughly standard on a car.

                Like Jerry said, usb 3.0 or ESATA interface, or firewire. Those will allow the throughput of the drive to reach the system, since you're using an external drive. Usb 2.0 constricts the data flow soo small, it's even less than the output of a 5400 drive. So you won't even see a 5400's peak potential with 2.0.

                Going cheap (cause green drives are cheaper) will thoroughly annoy you over time to the point that you'll end up buying a 7200 drive anyway after you've wisened to the technology. So what will you do?
                Thanks Stephen
                I would definitely get a 7200 option if I could, but its a pre-configured all in one from Sony , and you cant change that option. However if I hear you correctly and I use USB 3.0 drives to edit on, I will in effect be bypassing the negative effects of the slow 5400rpm C drive. Is that right?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Consider your main system drive as the contoller of commands. If you have a slow commander, the resulting reactions to the commands will be slower.
                  Your programs will open faster and your editing decisions will be interpreted much faster.

                  I know a lot of people are saying 'Well, you know I don't want to spend that much for an SSD.'
                  I just picked up my 3rd SSD. It is an OCZ Vertex 4 128gb for $89. Cheap! I put that drive on my surfing machine. I can say that my core 2 quad will boot faster than your I7...

                  My i7 X58 system has an Intel 520 120gb drive. What a difference. I have Edius 6.08 on a raptor drive running through Esata. It is like watching molasses drip as compared to booting with my SSD.

                  It is an invaluable investment.
                  Jerry
                  Six Gill DV
                  www.sgdvtutorials.com
                  If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                  Vistitle YouTube Channel
                  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                  Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                  http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                  Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                  Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by merrick61 View Post
                    However if I hear you correctly and I use USB 3.0 drives to edit on, I will in effect be bypassing the negative effects of the slow 5400rpm C drive. Is that right?
                    No. A fast interface speed can't make up for a slow drive.

                    With USB 2.0, the interface would be the bottleneck even if you have a 5400 RPM drive. With USB 3.0, both 5400 RPM and 7200 RPM drives will be the bottleneck.

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                    • #11
                      With the system you are building, definitely get an SSD drive. Install the SSD, clone the C: drive to the new SSD using Acronis or Ghost, remove the 5400 drive and set the SSD to boot in the BIOS.
                      You'll notice a huge difference in boot up and application load times.
                      Raja Singh
                      Sadha Video
                      UK
                      1st:HDStorm+expansion bay,i7 3770K Ivy Bridge, Asus P8Z77-V,16Gb Corsair RAM,nvidia GT-650,Lian Li PC-A7110B Tower Case,NEC 24" Monitor,Win7 64bit,Vistitle 2.6,Edius 8.2
                      2nd:HDSpark, i7 3770K Ivy Bridge, Asus P8Z77-V,16Gb Corsair RAM,nvidia GT-650, Lian-Li case, Asus 24" Monitor,Win7 64bit,Vistitle 2.6,Edius 8.2
                      3rd:IntensityPro4K,i7 4790K,Asus Z97-K,16Gb Corsair RAM,Geforce GTX750Ti,Corsair case,Asus 24"Monitor, Win7 64bit,Vistitle2.6,Edius 8.2
                      Gigabit Ethernet

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                      • #12
                        In reading this thread, I see frequent references to boot up time and application loading as benefiting from the 7200rpm HD. My understanding of Windows 8 is that at least from the perspective of boot up time, that will be greatly reduced as a function of the new OS regardless of the HD speed. Obviously a faster HD would probably still yield faster boot ups, but the OS is certainly a major factor.

                        So that leads me to expand on Merrick's question: How much does the difference in actual editing activities actually benefit from going from 5400 to 7200rpm HD?

                        As an example, encoding of a timeline is, at least as far as I know, mostly a function of the processor. The same could be said for applying more complex filters, transitions etc. So beyond app loading and boot up, how much does the faster spinning HD actually benefit the editing process once Edius is booted up and what are those editing processes that benefit?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The slower the drive, and drive interface, the slower that file
                          that is encoded by your processor is written to your hardvdrive.
                          Thus creating a bottleneck.

                          As far as boot up time in Win 8 is concerned, boot up is pushed by code, drive speed, cpu dpeed and whether or not it is from a true off or something similar to hibernate. Read this about how Win 8
                          Does it:

                          Now here’s the key difference for Windows 8: as in Windows 7, we close the user sessions, but instead of closing the kernel session, we hibernate it. Compared to a full hibernate, which includes a lot of memory pages in use by apps, session 0 hibernation data is much smaller, which takes substantially less time to write to disk. If you’re not familiar with hibernation, we’re effectively saving the system state and memory contents to a file on disk (hiberfil.sys) and then reading that back in on resume and restoring contents back to memory. Using this technique with boot gives us a significant advantage for boot times, since reading the hiberfile in and reinitializing drivers is much faster on most systems (30-70% faster on most systems we’ve tested).

                          So in Win 8 a shut down is not a shut down and hibernate is not hibernate.
                          Last edited by Jerry; 10-27-2012, 07:10 PM.
                          Jerry
                          Six Gill DV
                          www.sgdvtutorials.com
                          If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                          Vistitle YouTube Channel
                          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                          Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                          http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                          Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                          Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As the others have pointed to, your overall system performance will be limited by the slowest component involved in the operation. In other words, you need to look at the bottlenecks in your workflow, which usually (but not always) entails looking at all the parts of the system.

                            For EDIUS...
                            • CPU speed is of high importance as it uses the CPU for most operations.
                            • Memory is also important as video editing is a memory-intensive operation (each video frame must be decoded into memory)
                            • Storage performance is increasingly important as the size and number of clips/streams/layers increase. You have to be able to read the video data before the CPU can't decode it, no matter how fast a CPU you have.
                            • GPU performance is secondary as only the GPU effects (and third-party plug-ins that may use the GPU) use the GPU.



                            So in your case, since you're using external storage, your bottlenecks main bottlenecks will be interface speed (USB 2.0 = 480 Mbps = 60 MB/sec theoretical max, much less in practice, especially when bandwidth is being shared and divided by non-root hubs) and the throughput of the drive itself.

                            As everyone's said, a 7200 RPM drive will perform faster than a 5400 RPM drive, and an enterprise-class drive will perform faster (in situations it's designed for) than a desktop-class drive.

                            I highly recommend an external drive with active cooling (a fan) - especially if you get a 7200 RPM or faster drive. The majority of off-the-shelf external drives are NOT designed for continual constant use, so they will get very hot and heat leads to premature drive failure.

                            Moving to USB 3.0 will help remove the interface as a bottleneck.
                            Removing or segregating USB 1.x devices from your USB bus will help performance as well, especially if you have them connected to a single transaction (STT) translator hub and not a multi-transaction translator (MTT) hub (see next two links).
                            Geeky explanation from Cypress
                            Easier-to-understand explanation from Tom's Hardware

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