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  • A good article

    Here is a link to an article on judder.
    I post it because I think that it could help some getting footage right before bringing it in to EDIUS.
    It will also answer the question why some footage will judder more or ...looks to judder more.
    Have a good read and improved footage on your next edit.:)
    http://www.definitionmagazine.com/cameras/judder.htm
    Last edited by SRsupport; 01-03-2009, 09:28 AM.
    Steve
    EDIUS Trainer, Grass Cutter Gold
    A proud EDIUS EDITOR
    For more information on the Grass Cutter program please visit: http://www.grass-cutters.net

  • #2
    Originally posted by SRsupport View Post
    Here is a link to an article on judder.
    I post it because I think that it could help some getting footage right before bringing it in to EDIUS.
    http://www.definitionmagazine.com/cameras/judder.htm
    Excellent information! A must for those behind the camera and for editors too, when the client is freaking out about the amount of judder in the image (perhaps blaming editing system or editor).

    By the way, this is a good article for an editor to send with DP's or clients, as a way to maintain top-of-mind (self marketing).
    Shoot > DVX100B
    Edit > Edius 5.12. - Rexeed-Raideen ZF

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    • #3
      I agree with the last comment in the article.

      "This audience of the future may find the judder of 24fps movies made in the 20th century hard to bear."

      I really dislike the slow frame rates now. Why we have to continue the economic decisions of the last century really confuses me. Can't wait for 60p
      One thing not mentioned in the article is playback on most TV's of 24fps is with 2:3 pulldown. It isn't really 24p!!!! Something else not well understood. Most film projectors like I have include a 3 or 5 blade shutter and thus would need a TV refresh rate in an equivalent multiple of 24 to display the equivalent of a film projector. ie 72hz, 120hz. A 60hz display ( most of NTSC and PC monitors) can not natively display 24p but need a pulldown to do so. Resulting in the film cadence we see on top of the judder caused by shooting at slow frame rate. The 2:3 pulldown doubles 12 of the frames and triples 12 of the frames 12x2=24, 12x3=36, 24+36=60 the refresh rate.

      Ron Evans
      Ron Evans

      Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

      ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 18


      Cameras: GH5S, GH6, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

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      • #4
        Blame that on NTSC :-(. AND the US way to refuse to follow the rest of the world. Why 60Hz? Instead on 50Hz? And worse, 29.97 frames per second? PAL is so easy - 25 frames. Now you suffer the legacy rules.

        Anyway, newer cameras today can let you ignore those 20th century rules :-).
        TingSern
        --------------------------------------
        Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

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        • #5
          Well the U.S. uses 60Hz because our electricity is 60Hz. PAL countries use a higher voltage & 50Hz. It all started because of that.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by STORMDAVE View Post
            It all started because of that.
            Wise men don't stick with what they started, they re-consider, re-invent and at least improve on it.

            As posted in threads before, it's time to revise the HD spec's, they had the chance when going from SD to HD to do it right, they did not take the chance and missed the boat, they choose to build on the same shaky foundation, similar to what Windows O.S. is doing.

            This happened in the past, en will continue to happen in the corporate world, it's just how it works, it seems.

            HD now is a half baked improvement, same frame size as opposed to SD, but different refresh rate, so better compatibility, yet still not.

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            • #7
              Purists in the video world think differently. I'm up for a revolution and a global standard, but we all know that's not going to happen.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by STORMDAVE View Post
                Purists in the video world think differently. I'm up for a revolution and a global standard, but we all know that's not going to happen.
                That's why I play further with 50i, and let 'them' parade with p, everybody happy (almost) :)

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                • #9
                  Just as with film it is all based on economics and nothing to do with technology or art. 24fps was the lowest film stock usage to get acceptable optical sound. Before sound the frame rate was even slower!!!!
                  For video using the mains supply saved paying for a clock generator in every piece of equipment by definition they were all in sync with the mains supply. Hence 50 for PAL and 60 for NTSC.
                  The incompatibility is that the lowest cost for film is a different frame rate to the lowest cost for video !!!! Interlace was also economic. Transmit half the vertical resolution because its cheaper on bandwidth. 7.5 setup is also economic as it allowed sloppier design before video interfered with sync signals. Not the case for all NTSC as I believe Japan is 0 not 7.5 which is why we get into trouble with all the camcorders being 0 IRE , not just digital my analogue cameras were also around 0!!!!
                  I emigrated to Canada from the UK in 1970 and thought the colour on NA sets was poor. Then I went back on holiday and thought all the TV sets flickered and still do when I go to the UK for a few days. 50hz refresh is too slow for my eyes. Now most are moving to flat screens with higher refresh rates it is a lot better.
                  The real issue is that 24fps just doesn't match up with either 60 or 50hz and for a PAL country the matching refresh rate for 24p is ?? One could shoot at 25p but all the commercial movies are 24p.



                  Ron Evans
                  Ron Evans

                  Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

                  ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 18


                  Cameras: GH5S, GH6, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

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