Stepping into the HD waters: A question of keying and alpha channels

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Well, it's been a small bit since last I touched this subject

Okay. I have a new issue. We got a spaking new Canon XH A1. It shoots interlaced only ("Price is right" fail music here). Turns out the new hot f4v format in Adode does NOT ACCEPT ALPHA CHANNELS (ARRRGH). I shot my test at 1440x1080 60i

Why do I mention this all this?

Because when I output to f4v the output was smooth and great, just no alpha. So I go back to FLV, I got alpha and I get stuttering and motion lines aplenty.

So, I'm looking for one of two solutions:

Solution 1: Is there a way to output my interlaced file as a progressive file? (I.E. mask or remove my damn motion lines), and/or stop the stuttering and motion lines when converting into FLV from the adobe media encoder?

Solution 2: get f4v to work with an alpha channel.

Thanks again for the help :)

[dansimrelladvertising]

Well,

While Ultra would work in that format, Ultra can only produce an MOV file that has Alpha. The fact that from within Edius I could create an HQ AVI file that has an alpha channel is much more enticing to me, regardless of the steps.

The result I got from Edius doing these steps was fantastic. And thanks to HD, the Chromakey was dang near perfect.

[Jerry]

So, to review:

• Edius 5 will read and edit at 1920x1080/60p.
• There's a hidden but sweet way to actually do alpha channels.
• I've still got a lot to learn about HD editing

You mentioned that you are using ULtra. If you capture as a.m2t file, that file will import straight into Ultra and you won't have to do a work around.
Also, it will export a file with alpha for you. That file will be cropped and ready to roll.

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60p should look fine at 59.94i or 30p. On your output encoding you'll either want to drop down to 30p anyway.

So, to review:

• Edius 5 will read and edit at 1920x1080/60p.
• There's a hidden but sweet way to actually do alpha channels.
• I've still got a lot to learn about HD editing

[GrassValley_BH]

60p should look fine at 59.94i or 30p. On your output encoding you'll either want to drop down to 30p anyway.

[dansimrelladvertising]

Is Everio 1080/30p or 1080/24p?
EDIUS 5 supports both 1920x1080/29.97p and 1920x1080/23.98p

Actually, it's 60p. Just read it on the box.

So now what do I do? :)

[GrassValley_BH]

Is Everio 1080/30p or 1080/24p?
EDIUS 5 supports both 1920x1080/29.97p and 1920x1080/23.98p

[dansimrelladvertising]

You need to change your convert format to Luminance matte, as your grayscale matte isn't alpha - it's grayscale.

WOO-HOO! That did the trick! :)

Fantastic, and I don't think it's too many steps at all.

Now, I have one final question and it probably tangents a slight bit away from all this, but it's connected:

I am shooting with a JVC Everio which is giving me 1080p at 1920. It shoots onto a hard drive or onto a microsd card, as .TOD files which I am able to just pull onto my hard drive and work with in edius. My problem: Edius doesn't have an option for 1080p, and it's putting all my files into an interlace format. AS long as my subjects don't move too fast it's not a problem, but I'm getting some line issues in my conversion to flash with alpha.

Any suggestions on how to keep my progressive files progressive within edius?

[GrassValley_BH]

You need to change your convert format to Luminance matte, as your grayscale matte isn't alpha - it's grayscale.

[dansimrelladvertising]

Jerry
I thought you could export a file with Alpha Channel by making a "Matt" of the clip using say Chromakey or Luminance Key filter and selecting the "Key Display" at the top of the adjustment box
then on the timeline set the in/out and hit "Shift + Q" which renders the matt to the track above.
Place both of the clips "Matt and actual clip" in a folder in the Bin
Select both in the bin and right click
Selecting "Convert <> Alpha Matt"
Select from the box which file is the "Matt" and export the file
This can then be placed over any other clip with transparent alpha
Where the file is or was saved will appear in Properties
The clip can be used on the timeline with transparent background or used outside of Edius in any program that accepts the Canopus codec
This has been available since I joined Edius but like a lot of the good things is hidden out of site
Regards Barry

Okay.. this sounds promising...

But I am a step or two confused. I got my original clip, call in MOV001.TOD. I put it on the time line and chromokey it.

I then followed your steps and got to making the matt above the track, then put both into a folder, selected both and did the convert alpha map. I did not see an option to choose which file was the matt, but the matt did appear in the preview window.

I exported to testalpha (using Canopus HQ Online Quality and the default choice for Fill key) but the testalpha looks just like the matt file that got created with the CTRL + Q step, and I want my subject, not their I-POD-Commercial matt. I'm incuding a snapshot of the Save As screen.




How do I utilize this new testalpha file? The last steps you mentioned are not big on details. I ultimately want to read the file into flash and have the subject with it's alpha channel.

Thanks for this info. I would love if I could keep everything in Edius :)

[Bluetongue]

It is much easier to accept the fact that Edius is deficient in alpha handling. AE, Premiere or even cheaper programs will do it in one shot.
I have never wasted my time in trying this method. I remember Mike demonstrating that at NAB when it was made available. People went gaga with the ability to do a workaround. Come on!
I guess if the Op doesn't have AE or Premiere, well, he can do that.

Yes I do it that way as it comes down to how much do you spend and how many programs do you use.
I could not agree with you more on the poor Alpha support but at least I can achieve it for the few times I need it and still remain on speaking terms with the bank manager.
Regards Barry

[Jerry]

Jerry
I thought you could export a file with Alpha Channel by making a "Matt" of the clip using say Chromakey or Luminance Key filter and selecting the "Key Display" at the top of the adjustment box
then on the timeline set the in/out and hit "Shift + Q" which renders the matt to the track above.
Place both of the clips "Matt and actual clip" in a folder in the Bin
Select both in the bin and right click
Selecting "Convert <> Alpha Matt"
Select from the box which file is the "Matt" and export the file
This can then be placed over any other clip with transparent alpha
Where the file is or was saved will appear in Properties
The clip can be used on the timeline with transparent background or used outside of Edius in any program that accepts the Canopus codec
This has been available since I joined Edius but like a lot of the good things is hidden out of site
Regards Barry

Do you do it that way? Yes, it will work. The OP will have to then output that file to uncompressed or HDV to be able to import that into Ultra CS3. It does not play well with HQ.
Let me count how many steps you have to go through to get that. I do NOT consider that alpha support or a "good thing" hidden on the site. I got the impression the OP wanted the easiest way to do it. That sure is not. It is much easier to accept the fact that Edius is deficient in alpha handling. AE, Premiere or even cheaper programs will do it in one shot.
I have never wasted my time in trying this method. I remember Mike demonstrating that at NAB when it was made available. People went gaga with the ability to do a workaround. Come on!
I guess if the Op doesn't have AE or Premiere, well, he can do that.

[Bluetongue]

You cannot export an alpha channel in Edius 4 or 5.
Stick with AE for that.
I'm not sure if Ultra will do 1080p. I do know, from experience, that it will work with uncompressed 1080i files and then export to Hq with alpha.
If you are using one of the 4x3 virtual sets, you will need to read the manual on how to change the 4x3 into a 16x9 output. You then can choose the codec that you wish to use.

Jerry
I thought you could export a file with Alpha Channel by making a "Matt" of the clip using say Chromakey or Luminance Key filter and selecting the "Key Display" at the top of the adjustment box
then on the timeline set the in/out and hit "Shift + Q" which renders the matt to the track above.
Place both of the clips "Matt and actual clip" in a folder in the Bin
Select both in the bin and right click
Selecting "Convert <> Alpha Matt"
Select from the box which file is the "Matt" and export the file
This can then be placed over any other clip with transparent alpha
Where the file is or was saved will appear in Properties
The clip can be used on the timeline with transparent background or used outside of Edius in any program that accepts the Canopus codec
This has been available since I joined Edius but like a lot of the good things is hidden out of site
Regards Barry

[Jerry]

Just got our first HD camera. Yea for us.. Boldly going and whatnot...

But, I have a few issues I need to figure out, and need some help.

Mainly, in SD Edius, I had to output an AVI file, and do the chromokey in ULTRA 2.0 (or cs3 -- it's the same **** thing), so I could output the alpha channel in an MOV file. I then took that file and uploaded it into flash, so that I could have a cool spokesperson thing (All the rage) that was alpha channeled.

Thing is, Does ULTRA support 1080P video? And output it as HD? My ultra keeps crashing on me when I try, but my system has been known to be flakey. so I don't know if it's a failure of the deign, or my pain in the *** machine.

I guess my ultimate question is this:

I have NX-Express and 4.6. I now have an HD camera. Can someone please relay the steps as to how to output my HD video so that I can upload it in flash, retain my alpha channel, and make cool spokespeople that I charge my clients mondo bucks for.

Thanks :)

You cannot export an alpha channel in Edius 4 or 5.
Stick with AE for that.
I'm not sure if Ultra will do 1080p. I do know, from experience, that it will work with uncompressed 1080i files and then export to Hq with alpha.
If you are using one of the 4x3 virtual sets, you will need to read the manual on how to change the 4x3 into a 16x9 output. You then can choose the codec that you wish to use.

[dansimrelladvertising]

Just got our first HD camera. Yea for us.. Boldly going and whatnot...

But, I have a few issues I need to figure out, and need some help.

Mainly, in SD Edius, I had to output an AVI file, and do the chromokey in ULTRA 2.0 (or cs3 -- it's the same **** thing), so I could output the alpha channel in an MOV file. I then took that file and uploaded it into flash, so that I could have a cool spokesperson thing (All the rage) that was alpha channeled.

Thing is, Does ULTRA support 1080P video? And output it as HD? My ultra keeps crashing on me when I try, but my system has been known to be flakey. so I don't know if it's a failure of the deign, or my pain in the *** machine.

I guess my ultimate question is this:

I have NX-Express and 4.6. I now have an HD camera. Can someone please relay the steps as to how to output my HD video so that I can upload it in flash, retain my alpha channel, and make cool spokespeople that I charge my clients mondo bucks for.

Thanks :)