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24p in a 60p Timeline

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  • STORMDAVE
    replied
    I for one like the 24p look, if used correctly, and shot on film. If you ever do 720p make sure to shoot at 60p if you want to have the "video look" or 1080i. If you shoot in 24p, 30p, your footage will stutter on pans.

    The film industry uses 24p because they already have a workflow and they don't need to do extra frames during the DI if they have to do any compositing.

    Video always wants to emulate film, but in my opinion we're not going to get there as film has great dynamic range compared to video. Obviously video has its upsides, such as good performance under low light, easier data management (no need to scan film) etc.

    Whoops sorry for getting off topic :(

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  • Ron Evans
    replied
    Originally posted by GrassValley_BH View Post
    The term 24p is loaded noawadays. People think 24p and they "film look" - there's way more to the look of film than simply the frame rate. And if the entire film industry wasn't so tied to 24 fps, the film shooters would want something better anyway. It's a pain to have to keep track of how fast you pan so you don't get skipping on the playback.

    29.97p...
    Agree. I lot of the stuff I see on TV now is badly shot 24p as a cheap way of getting "the film look". Aside from that most displays have no hope of displaying 24p anyway. In a cinema the film is usually projected with a 3 or 5 blade shutter so a TV would have to refresh at 72HZ or 120Hz ( with proper cadence)to get close to the feeling of film. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your point of view, most of the newer 120hz LCD's actually interopate to get full progressive images for each frame smoothing out the odd cadence created by the film look!!!!. I dislike the slow frame rate and wish for nice high definition high frame rate video. For me using slow motion or filters to create an effect is fine but juddering motion is not pretty.

    Ron Evans

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  • redgum
    replied
    Also Brandon, 24p is a phenomenon most prevalent in the US. In Europe and Asia it's a rarity other than for film work.

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  • Bassman
    replied
    Thanks for your replies.

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_BH
    replied
    The term 24p is loaded noawadays. People think 24p and they "film look" - there's way more to the look of film than simply the frame rate. And if the entire film industry wasn't so tied to 24 fps, the film shooters would want something better anyway. It's a pain to have to keep track of how fast you pan so you don't get skipping on the playback.

    The nice side is that it's less data than 59.94i or 29.97p...

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry
    replied
    Originally posted by Bassman View Post
    I think it makes sense to me now.

    The 60p footage would have 60 divisions per second. If I pull just 24 of them out, they will not fill up the full second of time, therefore Edius would have to make up the difference ect...

    About 24p then, how does one make it look good if most of the viewing situations will be at 60hz?
    Here is the short answer from a link.

    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/pulldown.htm

    I have never been a big proponent of 24p. If you like that format, then by all means shoot in it. But, the work flow has to be the same all the way through in order to get the desired effect. That is the key word here, effect. 24p, in my opinion, only works well with film. It is native. It also has its pitfalls and drawbacks..i.e., pans, tilts, and zooms. With video you are using it as an effect. You need to ask yourself if you are wanting the frame rate or the progressive nature of the image.
    The only time that I have seen 24p work from video is after it has been transferred to film. That is where Anton's statement works. While it is in video form, I feel the image is softer and less detailed than that of a 29.97 video.
    Steve Soderberg shot one of his movies on an XL1 in pal and then transcribed to film.
    This link may help you in the future. Scroll down the page until you get to
    the pre-production heading.

    http://www.stevensoderbergh.net/articles/2002/apple.php

    Leave a comment:


  • antonsvideo
    replied
    Originally posted by Bassman View Post
    About 24p then, how does one make it look good if most of the viewing situations will be at 60hz?
    convert to film and project with a movie projector

    Leave a comment:


  • Bassman
    replied
    I think it makes sense to me now.

    The 60p footage would have 60 divisions per second. If I pull just 24 of them out, they will not fill up the full second of time, therefore Edius would have to make up the difference ect...

    About 24p then, how does one make it look good if most of the viewing situations will be at 60hz?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry
    replied
    Originally posted by Bassman View Post
    Hello,

    I am looking to move to HD and would like to ask a question about framerates.

    If I am shooting in 720p60 and have a 60p project, can I take some of the footage and make it 24p?

    How does Edius handle this? - 24p inside of a 60p timeline.

    Thanks
    Let me add to this. Are you planning on delivery on Blu-ray? If so, shoot in 24p, edit in 24p, and deliver on 24p.
    Now here is the kicker. You can go to all of that work and your project will be 24p on blu-ray. If the customer does not have an HDTV that will play 'true' 24p it will play back in 29.97 anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_KH
    replied
    Originally posted by Bassman View Post
    When I get home and edit the footage, I decide I want a 24p look to the intro.
    Seriously, the results would not be pleasant - if you want 24p-looking footage, shoot in 24p. The properties of such a format cannot be emulated.

    Certainly, EDIUS can match a frame-rate, but it cannot make it aesthetically pleasing for you. It can't artificially transform pans, zooms...cadence properties that affect any sort of movement on the screen.

    Ultimately, you then need to consider your delivery format - if this is going onto DVD, or even Blu-ray, with the majority of your content being 60hz based - the small section of 24p content just wont look good.

    It would be better to look into applying the old movie filter, with the options all disabled, save for the deinterlace setting (set it to blend).

    Leave a comment:


  • Bassman
    replied
    Here is the situation I am thinking about:

    Lets say I am shooting a wedding and I shoot it all at 720p60.

    When I get home and edit the footage, I decide I want a 24p look to the intro.

    Can I get this from the 60p footage and edit it on the same timeline as the rest of the 60p footage?

    Or do I need to make the intro separately?

    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Rusty
    replied
    Do-able, yes...
    Pretty, well...
    Edius is not fussy about what frame rate footage you throw at it.

    (I hope you meant 30p, unless you're using EX1 overcranked footage) (Edius can do that too)

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  • STORMDAVE
    replied
    You can only have one project setting per project and you can't have different settings on each sequence, project settings are global per project file.

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  • Bassman
    replied
    No, just wondering if one can make parts of a timeline different framerates.

    I am assuming one can pull 24p from 60p footage...

    Leave a comment:


  • antonsvideo
    replied
    24p? are you planning to output to 35mm film for cinema release?

    Leave a comment:

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