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  • 24p in a 60p Timeline

    Hello,

    I am looking to move to HD and would like to ask a question about framerates.

    If I am shooting in 720p60 and have a 60p project, can I take some of the footage and make it 24p?

    How does Edius handle this? - 24p inside of a 60p timeline.

    Thanks
    Asus Prime X299-A - Intel i9 7900x all cores @4.3GHz 2 cores @4.5GHz - 32GB RAM - NVidia GTX1070 - Edius 9 WG - BM Intensity 4k - Boris RED - Vitascene 2 - Windows 10

  • #2
    24p? are you planning to output to 35mm film for cinema release?
    Anton Strauss
    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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    • #3
      No, just wondering if one can make parts of a timeline different framerates.

      I am assuming one can pull 24p from 60p footage...
      Asus Prime X299-A - Intel i9 7900x all cores @4.3GHz 2 cores @4.5GHz - 32GB RAM - NVidia GTX1070 - Edius 9 WG - BM Intensity 4k - Boris RED - Vitascene 2 - Windows 10

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      • #4
        You can only have one project setting per project and you can't have different settings on each sequence, project settings are global per project file.

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        • #5
          Do-able, yes...
          Pretty, well...
          Edius is not fussy about what frame rate footage you throw at it.

          (I hope you meant 30p, unless you're using EX1 overcranked footage) (Edius can do that too)
          Rusty Rogers | Films
          >TYAN S7025 - 32GB RAM, 2 x Xeon X5690's, 4 x 10k video HD's, Win10 x64, BM DecklinkHD, nVidia TITAN, 12TB DroboPro w/iSCISI connection
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          An inglorious peace is better than a dishonorable war.
          Twain - "Glances at History" 1906

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          • #6
            Here is the situation I am thinking about:

            Lets say I am shooting a wedding and I shoot it all at 720p60.

            When I get home and edit the footage, I decide I want a 24p look to the intro.

            Can I get this from the 60p footage and edit it on the same timeline as the rest of the 60p footage?

            Or do I need to make the intro separately?

            Thanks
            Asus Prime X299-A - Intel i9 7900x all cores @4.3GHz 2 cores @4.5GHz - 32GB RAM - NVidia GTX1070 - Edius 9 WG - BM Intensity 4k - Boris RED - Vitascene 2 - Windows 10

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bassman View Post
              When I get home and edit the footage, I decide I want a 24p look to the intro.
              Seriously, the results would not be pleasant - if you want 24p-looking footage, shoot in 24p. The properties of such a format cannot be emulated.

              Certainly, EDIUS can match a frame-rate, but it cannot make it aesthetically pleasing for you. It can't artificially transform pans, zooms...cadence properties that affect any sort of movement on the screen.

              Ultimately, you then need to consider your delivery format - if this is going onto DVD, or even Blu-ray, with the majority of your content being 60hz based - the small section of 24p content just wont look good.

              It would be better to look into applying the old movie filter, with the options all disabled, save for the deinterlace setting (set it to blend).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bassman View Post
                Hello,

                I am looking to move to HD and would like to ask a question about framerates.

                If I am shooting in 720p60 and have a 60p project, can I take some of the footage and make it 24p?

                How does Edius handle this? - 24p inside of a 60p timeline.

                Thanks
                Let me add to this. Are you planning on delivery on Blu-ray? If so, shoot in 24p, edit in 24p, and deliver on 24p.
                Now here is the kicker. You can go to all of that work and your project will be 24p on blu-ray. If the customer does not have an HDTV that will play 'true' 24p it will play back in 29.97 anyway.
                Jerry
                Six Gill DV
                www.sgdvtutorials.com
                If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                Vistitle YouTube Channel
                https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, Corsair H110, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, HD Spark, Intensity Shuttle, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Benq 27 and Hanns-G 28 monitors, CC 2019, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

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                • #9
                  I think it makes sense to me now.

                  The 60p footage would have 60 divisions per second. If I pull just 24 of them out, they will not fill up the full second of time, therefore Edius would have to make up the difference ect...

                  About 24p then, how does one make it look good if most of the viewing situations will be at 60hz?
                  Asus Prime X299-A - Intel i9 7900x all cores @4.3GHz 2 cores @4.5GHz - 32GB RAM - NVidia GTX1070 - Edius 9 WG - BM Intensity 4k - Boris RED - Vitascene 2 - Windows 10

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bassman View Post
                    About 24p then, how does one make it look good if most of the viewing situations will be at 60hz?
                    convert to film and project with a movie projector
                    Anton Strauss
                    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bassman View Post
                      I think it makes sense to me now.

                      The 60p footage would have 60 divisions per second. If I pull just 24 of them out, they will not fill up the full second of time, therefore Edius would have to make up the difference ect...

                      About 24p then, how does one make it look good if most of the viewing situations will be at 60hz?
                      Here is the short answer from a link.

                      http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/pulldown.htm

                      I have never been a big proponent of 24p. If you like that format, then by all means shoot in it. But, the work flow has to be the same all the way through in order to get the desired effect. That is the key word here, effect. 24p, in my opinion, only works well with film. It is native. It also has its pitfalls and drawbacks..i.e., pans, tilts, and zooms. With video you are using it as an effect. You need to ask yourself if you are wanting the frame rate or the progressive nature of the image.
                      The only time that I have seen 24p work from video is after it has been transferred to film. That is where Anton's statement works. While it is in video form, I feel the image is softer and less detailed than that of a 29.97 video.
                      Steve Soderberg shot one of his movies on an XL1 in pal and then transcribed to film.
                      This link may help you in the future. Scroll down the page until you get to
                      the pre-production heading.

                      http://www.stevensoderbergh.net/articles/2002/apple.php
                      Jerry
                      Six Gill DV
                      www.sgdvtutorials.com
                      If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                      Vistitle YouTube Channel
                      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                      Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                      http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                      Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, Corsair H110, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, HD Spark, Intensity Shuttle, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Benq 27 and Hanns-G 28 monitors, CC 2019, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                      Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

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                      • #12
                        The term 24p is loaded noawadays. People think 24p and they "film look" - there's way more to the look of film than simply the frame rate. And if the entire film industry wasn't so tied to 24 fps, the film shooters would want something better anyway. It's a pain to have to keep track of how fast you pan so you don't get skipping on the playback.

                        The nice side is that it's less data than 59.94i or 29.97p...

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for your replies.
                          Asus Prime X299-A - Intel i9 7900x all cores @4.3GHz 2 cores @4.5GHz - 32GB RAM - NVidia GTX1070 - Edius 9 WG - BM Intensity 4k - Boris RED - Vitascene 2 - Windows 10

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                          • #14
                            Also Brandon, 24p is a phenomenon most prevalent in the US. In Europe and Asia it's a rarity other than for film work.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GrassValley_BH View Post
                              The term 24p is loaded noawadays. People think 24p and they "film look" - there's way more to the look of film than simply the frame rate. And if the entire film industry wasn't so tied to 24 fps, the film shooters would want something better anyway. It's a pain to have to keep track of how fast you pan so you don't get skipping on the playback.

                              29.97p...
                              Agree. I lot of the stuff I see on TV now is badly shot 24p as a cheap way of getting "the film look". Aside from that most displays have no hope of displaying 24p anyway. In a cinema the film is usually projected with a 3 or 5 blade shutter so a TV would have to refresh at 72HZ or 120Hz ( with proper cadence)to get close to the feeling of film. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your point of view, most of the newer 120hz LCD's actually interopate to get full progressive images for each frame smoothing out the odd cadence created by the film look!!!!. I dislike the slow frame rate and wish for nice high definition high frame rate video. For me using slow motion or filters to create an effect is fine but juddering motion is not pretty.

                              Ron Evans
                              Ron Evans

                              Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

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