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  • #16
    Originally posted by Fred Dwyer View Post
    Looking at the single frame wave form on the timeline is clearly useful, and a good starting point, but the final test is listening to the sound of an individual speaking (can't hear it listening to music). If the sound goes out of sync on any one camera the combined sound will have a distinct echo sound. As long as there is no echo, and lips sync to the sound, I'm satisfied. If that's up to 1/3 frame off, guess I just can't hear it. I should also note that the Marantz is recording 48khz .wav files, not MP3's. Just call me "Lucky Fred."
    Yes Fred I think you are lucky with consumer cams being that accurate. My Zoom's also record 48K WAV too and even they are out with each other over one hour but only by less than a frame. The FX1's maintain their sync but actually have their audio locked to a different position within the frame not noticeably different to mix together. The two FX1's are used for closeups of actors and are critical for lip sync which is why they are used for reference. The Zoom's( either one or both) are down at the stage so have better audio and thus the need to sync them with the audio from the FX1's. Rarely use the sound from the other cameras. The two FX1's use Rode shot gun mics. I now always go through the audio sync with Vegas now as the sound is so much better and the mixing capabilities in Vegas so much better than most, especially as I can go out to Sound Forge for any other editing I need.

    Ron
    Ron Evans

    Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

    ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 17


    Cameras: GH5S, GH5, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

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    • #17
      The audio from my HV30 and from the Optura are normally used just to get all 3 camera time lines in sync. After that they contribute just a very low level of ambient sound in sections that need it. The primary sound is from the 660 on the house PA system and a radio mic feeding my GL-1. Then of course the HV30 (shooting in 30p) and Optura sound tracks can be used when the groom accidently kills his lavalier mic, and the operator (me) somehow messes up starting the Marantz. That was a wedding last month. To make it even more disasterous the air conditioning in the church was loud and there were oscillating fans running on the alter. Delivered a not bad video with awful sound, I'm embaressed, just hope the bride and groom are not exactly audio enthusiasts.
      Fred D
      Win 7 Pro-64 bit, EDIUS Workgroup 8.5, Intel Ivy Bridge i5, ASUS P8Z77-V-LK, 8GB Kningston DDR3, Pioneer BDR-209UBK, EVGA NVIDEA GEForce GT630, Corsair TX750M 750w Power Supply, 4 WD Black HDD for 3.15TB, ACEDVIO, Spark HD, eSATA controller, ANTEC 300 case.

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      • #18
        Belive me, just resample mp3 if is 44,1 in 48kHz, i have trouble with sinc on 4 min, two years work with that. Resample in soundforge and sync will be OK

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Fred Dwyer View Post
          up to 1/3 frame off, guess I just can't hear it.
          3 Frames OFF is very obvious !

          My main work can be described as editing archive footage from seminars etc.
          Often speakers are shot in a tight frame and 2 or 3 frame audio to video sync delays are very noticeable.

          If I'm in a rush i'll sync to 1 frame accuracy, when got time it's one to one.

          My pro-summer digital video mixer has a set, 3 frame video buffer, and for some reason the audio delay doesn't work.
          The mixer is rented out frequently and most users don't notice this problem.

          I do inform them about this issue, but , either they don't know what buffer delay means, or they don't bother, and/or are used to it, because nowadays on TV, especially on live telecast it's a common problem that can be rectified easily but is not.

          BTW a continuous recording of several hours should not take more than 5~10 minutes to have the global sync corrected in Edius if the end result is only 30 / 100 frames or of.

          If you devide the say 2 or 3 hour footage in 15 or 30 minutes, there will be enough chances to change speed in the footage or cut things out.
          Only if you work with linear solutions it will take a long time !

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          • #20
            It appears that I wasn't very clear. My reference was to ONE THIRD (1/3) of a frame, not 3 frames.
            Fred D
            Win 7 Pro-64 bit, EDIUS Workgroup 8.5, Intel Ivy Bridge i5, ASUS P8Z77-V-LK, 8GB Kningston DDR3, Pioneer BDR-209UBK, EVGA NVIDEA GEForce GT630, Corsair TX750M 750w Power Supply, 4 WD Black HDD for 3.15TB, ACEDVIO, Spark HD, eSATA controller, ANTEC 300 case.

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            • #21
              It seems people are assuming that the audio and video were recorded with the same device in my case. They weren't. Syncing up the two cameras is easy even though it takes some time. People were taking pictures and all I needed to do was find a specific flash and sync them up that way. It'd be much better if we could sync up the timecodes of the cameras but we're still able to line them up to the frame. Their audios are fine.

              The audio that is going off sync is the two streams recorded by two iFP-895 Iriver mp3 players attached to the podiums on stage. We do convert them to .wav and I believe they are recorded at 48kHz. If not we do resample them to 48kHz before editing anyway.
              Last edited by Silk_Sk; 07-21-2008, 08:39 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Silk_Sk View Post
                It seems people are assuming that the audio and video were recorded with the same device in my case. They weren't. Syncing up the two cameras is easy. People were taking pictures and all I needed to do was find a specific flash and sync them up that way. It'd be much better if we could sync up the timecodes of the cameras but we're still able to line them up to the frame. Their audios are fine.

                The audio that is going off sync is the two streams recorded by two iFP-895Iriver mp3 players attached to the podiums on stage. We do convert them to .wav and I believe they are recorded at 48kHz. If not we do resample them to 48kHz before editing anyway.
                I understood what you were asking and Edius can not do the audio time stretch that is in Vegas and Sound Forge. It is why I do my audio editing in Vegas and Sound Forge. Why don't you just export the audio, take it home on a USB drive edit in Vegas and then take back to work!!!!

                Ron Evans

                ps I have not looked to see if there are any VST plug-ins that might do this function.
                Last edited by Ron Evans; 07-21-2008, 06:24 PM.
                Ron Evans

                Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

                ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 17


                Cameras: GH5S, GH5, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ron Evans View Post
                  I understood what you were asking and Edius can not do the audio time stretch that is in Vegas and Sound Forge. It is why I do my audio editing in Vegas and Sound Forge. Why don't you just export the audio, take it home on a USB drive edit in Vegas and then take back to work!!!!

                  Ron Evans

                  ps I have not looked to see if there are any VST plug-ins that might do this function.
                  I can't do that because (long and boring explanation of why I can't do that follows. you can just trust me and not read it if you chose) I've cut it down to the two sync points and when I've lined those up I need to be able to extend the audio back to where I want it. I won't be able to do that if I export it cut down like it is now. If I export the whole thing uncut I won't be able to find the sync points again. Even if I cut out the audio at those points to mark them I don't have enough HD space to transfer the video I need to sync it to at home. I could just eyeball it, remembering the number of frames it was off, but at that point I'll have to account for the frames I cut out. By now I've got too many places to make a mistake and, knowing myself, I'd probably make one and the whole trip would have to be repeated. Plus, with or without mistakes, It's just way too much trouble to go through every time this happens.

                  A plugin would be wonderful. *still can't believe Edius does not have a rate edit tool*

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                  • #24
                    As Brandon's already pointed out, there is no rate stretch tool - you need to use the 4-point, fit-to-fill function to solve this issue in EDIUS. There is no other plug-in solution that I am aware of, that would work directly within the software.

                    I'm not sure what else can be achieved by, over course of five days, pointing out the lack of said feature. Certainly, it won't be remedied any time soon to cover your time constraints.

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                    • #25
                      Just a minor case of denial. Don't worry about it ^_^. I guess I'll see if I can figure out a way to use the fit to fill the way I need it.

                      EDIT: Okay, new question. I was able to use the 4 point edit to get the two sync points at their desired locations by putting the streams into a sequence and re-inserting them onto the timeline the way Brandon indicated. The problem now is that I can't get the wave data to display on the imported sequence and I need it, not only to make sure it is synced, but to sync it to the original audios as well so that I can extend them from the newly adjusted sync points to their desired in/out points. I tried to refresh the wave data but that didn't work either. For whatever reason, is Edius not able to display the waveforms of sequences?

                      Also, the sound of the imported sequence is now synced at the in/out points I indicated, but for some reason it goes way off in the middle. I won't be able to see by how much, or how, or where to, or even if I can adjust it if I can't get the waveform to display.
                      Last edited by Silk_Sk; 07-21-2008, 08:30 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Silk_Sk View Post
                        The audio that is going off sync is the two streams recorded by two iFP-895 Iriver mp3 players attached to the podiums on stage. We do convert them to .wav and I believe they are recorded at 48kHz. If not we do resample them to 48kHz before editing anyway.
                        For me go to Edius click on audio file/properties and look is 44.1kHz or 48 kHz please....

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Silk_Sk View Post
                          for some reason it goes way off in the middle. I won't be able to see by how much, or how, or where to.
                          It is clearly difficult to get people to change their workflow, or even to read a post. (lol)

                          As I posted before, MP3 Realtime VBR (Variable Bit Rate) recording devices will "Floath Randomly" over time due to the fact that they are using NON professional timecoded format etc. etc. etc.

                          A way to solve this would be to record in CBR (Constand Bit Rate) if your device would be able to, even then it would not be perfect from beginning to end, but will not or only very slighty "Floath" randomly. (imperfections of the codec and dropping frames etc.)

                          Here in Asia I have seen many implementations of almost any type of recording format you can think of, people here are very inventive when it comes down to saving money.
                          Anyone ever tried to sync a analog tape recording, done on a handhelp "memo" type of device with, I think, worn out tape transport and half empty batteries ? (nice wow & flutter)

                          4-point editing to sync the picture towards to sound will only be effective when the recorded audio was "Drifting" away like a good old fashioned wav file would do overtime, with your problem it does not help, you need to sync the audio to the picture.

                          When I mentioned in my earlier post that it would be advisable to divide in 15 or 30 minutes portions was not a blind suggestion, I know by experience what you are facing, and this is how I solve these kind of problems daily, not that this is the only way, but it's a good way.

                          And yes it is tedious, life is not always realtime ...............

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