Stretching a clip with the mouse

[Silk_Sk]

Every editing program I've used to date had two ways of extending a clip with the mouse: extending it's duration, and modifying it's speed to cover the desired area. I have not yet found a way to do the latter in Edius. I know how to edit the speed of the clip but if I want it to cover a specific frame-exact area, that method is hit or miss. And no, I am not asking about time-remap. That doesn't change the area the clip covers.

My problem is this. My company recorded a two hour highschool graduation ceremony. We also had two mp3 mics on the podiums. I synced up the waveforms of the mp3s and the audio from the cameras at the beginning of the timeline but for some reason over the duration of the ceremony the mp3 and camera audios gradually become de-synced. By the end of the two hours they are over 1 second off with the mp3 audio coming before the cameras.

Note: We've had this problem before and we're working on it. I'm asking about something else please.

So, like I did at the beginning, I found a common point in the waveforms near the end to sync together. Now all I need to do is stretch that point in the mp3s towards that point in the cameras so that they stay synced for the entire two hours. I can't imagine that Edius does not have a way to do this but I couldn't find it in the manual or in the video tutourials. The mp3s are far too long to make small enough speed changes to hit the exact frame I need so I need to find the method to stretch them manually using the mouse.

[GrassValley_BH]

EDIUS doesn't have a rate-stretch tool, but if you do a 4-point edit, it'll fit-to-fill.

[Silk_Sk]

Could you elaborate?

[GrassValley_BH]

You'd mark an In and Out point in the Player, for example, In at the beginning of the clip, and Out at some easy-to-identify sync point.
In the Timeline, you mark In and Out as well, for example, In at the beginning of the timeline, and Out at the corresponding easy-to-identify sync point.

Then you click on the track you want the clip to land on, and Insert to Timeline. EDIUS will adjust the speed of the clip to fit within the duration of the timeline gap.

You could also just adjust the clip Speed in the timeline by duration, if you know about how many seconds "off" it is.

[Silk_Sk]

It's 35 frames off to be exact. I tried adjusting the mp3s by -.01 % increments but since they're so long even that extends them too far.

I'll try what you said but there are no two easy to sync points that I can find at the beginning and end of the two hours. I could try taking the mp3s and making a new sequence that starts and ends on the two points and then see if try what you said. But, when I re-import them to the main sequence I won't be able to extend them beyond those points.

[Raja]

Convert the mp3's to wavs and place on the timeline. Should not go out of sync.

[Silk_Sk]

We do. I think the problem is with the program we use to capture the film, not the mp3s.

[SoundFreak]

We do. I think the problem is with the program we use to capture the film, not the mp3s.

With almost certenty the MP3 will be the problem here, not the video.

AVI is a rock solid format even 50 cents programs capture well with it.

Check if you MP3 mic is using a variable bit rate ! if so, this is your problem !
See if this can be changed to CBR recording.

MP3 audio does not have a time code like video to lock on to, there fore will "floath" over time.

Always convert the MP3 file to wav (44.1 or 48Khz) Edius will work well than, and its easy to resync the wav audio as you will have several cuts in your 2 hour video.

[SoundFreak]

I tried adjusting the mp3s by -.01 % increments but since they're so long even that extends them too far.

When ever you re-sync audio to video / video to audio, you cut up the project in smaller portions to be able to handle this, try it, it works much better !

Make use of the cut-outs you make in the video, then sync and cross fade the audio.

[Ron Evans]

It's 35 frames off to be exact. I tried adjusting the mp3s by -.01 % increments but since they're so long even that extends them too far.

This is why I use Vegas for my audio. Vegas has a stretch tool that makes this job easy especially with frame sync off audio can be shifted/stretched by audio clock. In a multicam I use the main camera audio as the sync reference and sync all the other audio to it. I first sync up the cameras in Edius then export the audio from each camera( same in/out points from the beginning of the timeline) as a wav file together with files from the audio recorders. With picture in sync the audio can still be off by 1/3 frame in consumer DV. The clocks of the audio recorders never sync with the cameras so I always have to do this even using 48K wav in my Zoom H4. Import into Vegas and sync and mix rendering a wav file for use back in Edius. Waveforms can be made big and easy to see in Vegas so task is a lot easier to sync. Vegas started life as an audio editor and tends to treat video in the same way.

Ron Evans

[Fred Dwyer]

For what it's worth, I use a Marantz 660, shooting with Canon GL1, HV30, and an Optura Ix. For 1.5 hour programs, 2 tapes in 2 cameras, only 1 in the Optura, and the sound syncs perfectly except for the occaisional dropped frame. The solid state Marantz is spot on all the way.

[Silk_Sk]

With almost certenty the MP3 will be the problem here, not the video.

AVI is a rock solid format even 50 cents programs capture well with it.

Check if you MP3 mic is using a variable bit rate ! if so, this is your problem !
See if this can be changed to CBR recording.

MP3 audio does not have a time code like video to lock on to, there fore will "floath" over time.

Always convert the MP3 file to wav (44.1 or 48Khz) Edius will work well than, and its easy to resync the wav audio as you will have several cuts in your 2 hour video.

I am aware of AVI's stability but I think it's scenelyzer (the capturing program). It automatically cuts the film and makes a new clip every 10 minutes while capturing. Every time it does that I think it throws it off by 1 or 2 frames at some point, not at the actual cut. This is just my suspicion though.

When ever you re-sync audio to video / video to audio, you cut up the project in smaller portions to be able to handle this, try it, it works much better !

Make use of the cut-outs you make in the video, then sync and cross fade the audio.

It took hours just to sync up the two cameras (one of which was much farther away from the stage so the sound reached it later) and both the mp3s at a common point near the beginning. I don't want to have to do that several more times if I can help it. I could just go through the mp3s and copy a frame here and there but I was hoping Edius had a far less tedious way.

This is why I use Vegas for my audio. Vegas has a stretch tool that makes this job easy especially with frame sync off audio can be shifted/stretched by audio clock. In a multicam I use the main camera audio as the sync reference and sync all the other audio to it. I first sync up the cameras in Edius then export the audio from each camera( same in/out points from the beginning of the timeline) as a wav file together with files from the audio recorders. With picture in sync the audio can still be off by 1/3 frame in consumer DV. The clocks of the audio recorders never sync with the cameras so I always have to do this even using 48K wav in my Zoom H4. Import into Vegas and sync and mix rendering a wav file for use back in Edius. Waveforms can be made big and easy to see in Vegas so task is a lot easier to sync. Vegas started life as an audio editor and tends to treat video in the same way.

Ron Evans

Ah, Vegas. Yes, that's the program I use at home for my hobby and that's the exact feature I was looking for in Edius. Seriously, the program we used before this was 10 years old and it had a rate-edit tool so why can't Edius? Unfortunately this is my job and I have to work with what I got.

And yes, I repeat, we do convert the audio to .wav before editing.

For what it's worth, I use a Marantz 660, shooting with Canon GL1, HV30, and an Optura Ix. For 1.5 hour programs, 2 tapes in 2 cameras, only 1 in the Optura, and the sound syncs perfectly except for the occaisional dropped frame. The solid state Marantz is spot on all the way.

I'll be sure to mention it to the boss but we've been using Sony dcr-vc2100 cameras with mp3 recorders hooked to the poduim/groom/reverend (depends on the even) for a while and change would be difficult not to mention expensive. Heck, it took us this long just to switch editing programs.

[Ron Evans]

I think Fred is very, very lucky if his system is in sync. Consumer camcorders in DV mode could be up to 1 and 2/3 frames out of audio sync with each other and still meet spec. That was the defined difference between DV and DVCam or DVCPro which had locked audio. So it is likely that every time one tries to sync two consumer DV cameras the audio will be out of sync either from the initial start point or the fact they can drift with in this spec limit of no more than 1/3 frame off from the video. With the timeline set at say 1 sec and a short timeline it is not visible but expanding the timeline to 1 frame and it will be very evident. In mixing two FX1's, HC96 or TRV50, Panasonic GS400 and sound from Zoom H4 and Zoom H2 I always have to use Vegas to sync up sound exactly on frame for all sources. Both shifting start point within a frame and stretch to match the sound over the 1 hour. The two FX1's are close but not exact the others are always way off. This is for theatre where each part is usually about 1 hour or so.

Ron Evans

[Fred Dwyer]

Looking at the single frame wave form on the timeline is clearly useful, and a good starting point, but the final test is listening to the sound of an individual speaking (can't hear it listening to music). If the sound goes out of sync on any one camera the combined sound will have a distinct echo sound. As long as there is no echo, and lips sync to the sound, I'm satisfied. If that's up to 1/3 frame off, guess I just can't hear it. I should also note that the Marantz is recording 48khz .wav files, not MP3's. Just call me "Lucky Fred."

[easy_edit]

I have problem with that.
Just resample your mp3 in soundforge to 48kHz.