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  • HD Camera for the non-pros

    I have been editing in EDIUS for many years on a 3 chip SD camera for family use only but wanting to move to HD. I have been looking at AVCHD since the 3 chip cameras are still to far out of echnomic reach > $2000. Coming from a Sony background I fell in love with the V1 but alas too much $$ for the time I will use it. So, looking at AVCHD I see Sony and Canon as top choices; but none of them seem to have an external mic input; and audio does seem to be a weakness of these cameras. Any advice on what pro-sumer HD camera with an exyernal mic input would be appreciated.

  • #2
    I assume you're going to be using this with EDIUS? (Trying to determine relevancy here)

    AVCHD is a "tough" format to encode/decode and hence to edit. Real-time performance-wise, you'd be better off going with a HDV camera. Less compression, easier to edit (compared to AVCHD), and probably better optics. Then again, Panasonic has recently introduced their professional AVCHD-based line.

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    • #3
      The Sony SR11/12 do have a mic input and headphone jack too as well as remote control over the A/V jack with the newer Sony tripods. For family use I love my SR11. It is very convenient to direct review clips, can't over record anything etc etc. Conversion to HQ with the AVCHD converter is very fast if you have a quad core PC and then it is just like editing anything else. With my Q9450 I can copy to PC and convert in just over realtime so is not a lot slower than capturing HDV to HQ but a lot more convenient for family use. Sony Browser software is necessary for capture to PC and then keeps a nice managed backup by date etc. I direct conversion to HQ from this directory to another hard drive for editing. Sony software is adequate for cuts editing and making DVD or AVCHD discs as well as transfer back to camera if you want to show to others over HDMI. SR11 mixes well with HDV from my FX1.
      Ron Evans
      Ron Evans

      Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 SATA OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

      ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 16


      Cameras: GH5S, GH5, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

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      • #4
        Like BH says a mini cassette HDV cam is probably the better choice, both Sony and Canon make them, there are still maybe some older Canon HV20s floating around, or a HV30 for under $800, both have stereo mike in, Sony has the older HC7 and newer HC9 which is under $900, both which also has a stereo mic in, the Canons have a shoe to take a mic, the Sonys have a special shoe so you need something like a Bescor VB-50 Universal Shoe Mount Adapter($12) which can be used with both Canon and Sony that also gives extra support to stabilize hand held shots, I've used both the HC7 and HV20 with a Rode video Mic with good results.
        GA-EP45C-DSR3,Core2Q3ghz,8gig1066,260GTX,2x 20"AOC,22"Vizio1080pTV, Edius5/HDspark,PC3,Imaginate, CS5ProdStudio/IntensityPro,Win7_64
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        • #5
          Barry,
          Different strokes for different folks. I've shot HDV for many years, successfully and happily. I've been editing with Canopus since way before EDIUS. Successfully and happily. I have switched my recent allegiance to the Sony SR-12 (successfully and happily), and will be testing the new Canon AVCHD cameras within a week or so. I LOVE the resolution, colorimetry and ease of operation without carrying HDV tapes along in each pocket and worrying about when I'll run out of tape at just the wrong moment. The SR-12 can hold over 14 hours of 17Mbps HD on the hard drive. And here's the most important reason, which I may respectfully differ with Brandon on. The new Grass Valley AVCHD2HQ converter is terrific, and takes very little more time than transfering the tapes to your computer to edit with EDIUS - and EDIUS has NO problems with the converted file. There is NO loss in quality of transfer. Timewise (to transfer), the Sony program which takes the AVCHD native file and transfers it to you computer for step 1, is quite fast - with my quad CPU about 6 times normal speed. Then the AVCHD2HQ converter is also quite speedy, and can convert fils by the batchful, and not one-at-a-time!

          Like Ron said, the SR-12 DOES have an external mike input, and controls.

          We all get great advice from our friends on the forum. I hope you have the time to "speak" to many who have been using the NEW (17Mbps) AVCHD cameras (the old record rate was 7MBPS - terrible) and see what their combined census is. I'm only one of the group!

          Best of luck,
          Alan
          Alan J. Levi
          Director

          SYSTEM: ASUS P8Z77-VPro mobo, Intel 3770K CPU, 16 Gig Crucial 1866 RAM, Antec 1000W PS, EVGA nVidia 560Ti 1Gig Video, CoolerMaster CPU cooler, LG GGW-H20L BluRay DVD, SPARK card w/23" Samsung 1920x1080 Monitor, OCZ 240GB SSD boot in Swapable Tray & 3 WD Enterprise 1TB video RAID 5 HDD's. 4.5TB RAID 1 Outboard backups, Behringer2000 Audio Fader/Controller

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bseidner View Post
            I have been editing in EDIUS for many years on a 3 chip SD camera for family use only but wanting to move to HD. I have been looking at AVCHD since the 3 chip cameras are still to far out of echnomic reach > $2000. Coming from a Sony background I fell in love with the V1 but alas too much $$ for the time I will use it. So, looking at AVCHD I see Sony and Canon as top choices; but none of them seem to have an external mic input; and audio does seem to be a weakness of these cameras. Any advice on what pro-sumer HD camera with an exyernal mic input would be appreciated.
            I saw a picture with this microphone attached to one of the Canon Vixia HV-30. Yes, it does have a microphone in. This is based on the specifications only.
            http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite...transid=502047
            Jerry
            Six Gill DV
            www.sgdvtutorials.com
            If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

            Vistitle YouTube Channel
            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

            Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
            http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


            Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, Corsair H110, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, HD Spark, Intensity Shuttle, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Benq 27 and Hanns-G 28 monitors, CC 2019, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
            Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

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            • #7
              I have the Canon HV30. The image quality is superb. Using mini-DV tapes does provide a simple archive method. Simply put your tapes away and you have an archive. Hard drive and solid state storage will require some additional steps to archive your video. A disadvantage of course is that you will be limited to a maximum of 83 minutes of record time per tape. The HV30 does not offer a fully manual shooting mode, but it does offer Tv, Av, and Program mode, and an exposure lock function with + and - adjustment available. It shoots in 60i, 30p, or 24p. I like the 30p. Low light performance is quite good for a single chip camera. Picking it up, it feels very light and somewhat flimsey. The build quality is not impressive. Still, I like the camera and would encourage you to consider it seriously.
              Fred D
              Win 7 Pro-64 bit, EDIUS Workgroup 8.5, Intel Ivy Bridge i5, ASUS P8Z77-V-LK, 8GB Kningston DDR3, Pioneer BDR-209UBK, EVGA NVIDEA GEForce GT630, Corsair TX750M 750w Power Supply, 4 WD Black HDD for 3.15TB, ACEDVIO, Spark HD, eSATA controller, ANTEC 300 case.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Fred Dwyer View Post
                I have the Canon HV30. The image quality is superb. Using mini-DV tapes does provide a simple archive method. Simply put your tapes away and you have an archive. Hard drive and solid state storage will require some additional steps to archive your video. A disadvantage of course is that you will be limited to a maximum of 83 minutes of record time per tape. The HV30 does not offer a fully manual shooting mode, but it does offer Tv, Av, and Program mode, and an exposure lock function with + and - adjustment available. It shoots in 60i, 30p, or 24p. I like the 30p. Low light performance is quite good for a single chip camera. Picking it up, it feels very light and somewhat flimsey. The build quality is not impressive. Still, I like the camera and would encourage you to consider it seriously.
                I have the bigger brother to that, the XH-A1. Compared to my Sony FX1, it is heads above in picture quality, focusing, and ability to change color saturation. I also have an HDR-HC3 which I picked up for $400 last year.
                The nice thing about this camera is it's ability to playback NTSC and PAL.
                Nice added feature I was not expecting to get. In bright light works great.
                Low light, sucks. I have used the HV-30. It takes great pictures and for such a little camera if you have the stabilizer turned on it produces a very stable image. It has HDMI so that you can capture at 1920x1080 into any card that has HDMI in. I use the Intensity Pro to capture everything now. Then just bring the files into Edius and badda bing!
                Jerry
                Six Gill DV
                www.sgdvtutorials.com
                If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                Vistitle YouTube Channel
                https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, Corsair H110, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, HD Spark, Intensity Shuttle, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Benq 27 and Hanns-G 28 monitors, CC 2019, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

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                • #9
                  Camera

                  Hi,
                  I just bought the Sony HVR-Z7P and it is a great camera, We shoot weddings and I just completed one on the weekend with it, I am using a new 32gig CF card from Silicon Image (which gives me over 2hrs of HD footage) as well as tape, it records to both at once.
                  Low light is beautiful with this camera, this was one reason I decided to get it after talking to a friend of mine (Redgum) who also has given me alot of advice about it. But to sum it up in one word.. GREAT!

                  Cheers
                  Steve
                  Main system, Supermicro X8DAH+,Dual Xeon X5680 cpu's 24 cores,2x1400watt power supplys,SC747TG-R1400B-SQ Case,192GB 1333mhz ECC Registered ram,8 x 480GB Intel 520 SSD drives,Windows 7 64 bit ultimate, GTX 670 4GB ,2 x Sony BWU300S Blu-Ray burners, 1x Sony DVD burner,LSI 9266 Raid Controller with Cache vault & fast path Lic, ESI MayaE Audio,HD Spark,Blackmagic intensity Pro,TMPGenc 5,Episode Pro 6,Sorenson 9 Pro,Alcohol 120 V2, Edius 6.53,Dell 27"LCD,HD Spark, Powershield 3000VA UPS.

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                  • #10
                    Hi,

                    if you are Ok with single CMOS you can go with the A1U.
                    It's a lovely small camera with very nice picture. Low light is not so good, however. Has XLR inputs.
                    I played with it today, before buying the V1 :). Which is great! Well, may be the little brother of Z7P, but still amazing...
                    At the lower end - I also have a HG10 - very nice toy, great picture and has mike input, but still 1 CMOS.
                    AVCHD is very easy to work with (no capture), but you need some time to convert to HQ - at the desktop it takes ~ 1.3 shooting time.
                    HVR 1VU, HG10 AVCHD, Edius 4.61, Software only, HP Mobile Workstation, XP SP2, 4GB RAM, Dual Core Duo 2.5 Ghz, Maxtor 1.5 TB Raid 0 over FireWire.

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                    • #11
                      I'll second the Sony HVR -A1, cracking little camera and tape means you have your archive/backup.
                      I'm a little unsure about hard disk based cameras, especially for pro use, I always have the thought in the back of my mind that one knock or a small drop could mean all video lost, and with the large recording times that could mean a couple of days shoot. Not such an issue if its domestic.
                      HDV is handled really well in Edius too.
                      System 1 - Win7 64/Edius 5.51/Asus P8/8Gb RAM/RAID0/i7 2600K OC/nVidia Quadra 600
                      System 2 - Win XP/Edius v4.61/Asus P5 DH Deluxe/4Gb RAM/RAID0/Quad Core 2.4Ghz Q6600/nVidia 9800GT 512Mb/NXHD + other stuff

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stereodesign View Post
                        I always have the thought in the back of my mind that one knock or a small drop could mean all video lost
                        It needs a Serious knock (as a friend of mine found out) and it was dead (the Hard Drive then (not my Friend)

                        That's why i chose the HC9, a bit more to carry around (empty tapes) but then you'll have a rock steady archive and Edius captures the HDV stream and converts it on the fly to HQ without any problems.

                        I almost went for the A1, but testing the cam's side by side, they handle mostly the same due to the size, manual control is there but not very practical, due to it size, it has more focus hunting problem then the HC9 and cost more than double.

                        For me an easy choice A1 as 1st or 2nd cam NO, better of using a little bit higher end, as 3rd of family cam YES , but a tad too expensive as you wont need any usable audio off a 3rd cam (only as reference)
                        Image quality with fair to good light = outstanding (slightly washed out (Asian Sun), as for low light, well, not too good ...........

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                        • #13
                          thanks for all the great tips

                          I continue to visit this subject and your guidance has been extremely helpful. It looks, from a home affordability and portabikity perspective it is a Canon or Sony (12) are the lead contenders. Certainly the 17Mbs AVCHD is minimum. My dream is a V1 but given my needs are light use the 12 looks awlful good. My shotgum mic will not fit on this small camera so Senhauser will have to get more of my money for a smaller mic ( do not know how good the built in mic's are. ) Canon cameras are still worth looking at; I just have not concluded here yet.

                          On the mic; any experience as to which way to go??

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bseidner View Post
                            I continue to visit this subject and your guidance has been extremely helpful. It looks, from a home affordability and portabikity perspective it is a Canon or Sony (12) are the lead contenders. Certainly the 17Mbs AVCHD is minimum. My dream is a V1 but given my needs are light use the 12 looks awlful good. My shotgum mic will not fit on this small camera so Senhauser will have to get more of my money for a smaller mic ( do not know how good the built in mic's are. ) Canon cameras are still worth looking at; I just have not concluded here yet.

                            On the mic; any experience as to which way to go??
                            Did you look at my earlier post with the sennheiser link for the microphone that will fit on the Canon? I'm not sure about the Sony.
                            Jerry
                            Six Gill DV
                            www.sgdvtutorials.com
                            If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                            Vistitle YouTube Channel
                            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                            Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                            http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                            Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, Corsair H110, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, HD Spark, Intensity Shuttle, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Benq 27 and Hanns-G 28 monitors, CC 2019, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                            Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

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                            • #15
                              AVCHD Canon vs. Sony Model 12

                              Yes, Jerry, the mic does look like an excellent alternative for these cameras. I do not know if it will fit the Sony, and I like knowing it fits the Canon. Give these two manufacturers, which are extremely competitive, is the trade oof brand or are there other technical nuances that makes one just a bit better? 17MHz is compelling; when is the 25MHz versions due out? Any other bits that may make it worth waiting??

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