3D PIP & keying

[GrassValley_MD]

OK, I'm obviously missing something fundamental here!

I was used to using 3D PIP to position and scale a graphic I'd created in Photoshop (for example) and then keying out the background using chromakey in 3D PIP.

What I'm doing is dropping a clip into 1 VA then dropping amother clip or graphic into 2 VA above it.
I apply 3DPIP to the clip or graphic in 2 VA, but how do I then apply chromakey to that clip or graphic?

Can you explain how you did the butterfly example with Edius 4 as that will probably answer my question and then I'll realise I've been stupid...

3DPIP has never allowed another keyer to work with it BUT there are a couple of options for you.

1. Uses 2DPIP and then use Chromakey on it to get the job done. - This option doesn't allow for cropping or 3D Space movement

2. Use an Alpha Channel in the graphic and use 3D PIP to move and size it. - You would have to make sure that if you are going to move the object in 3D Space that you turn off the light and shadow option.

You also asked about video. If you have a file like a quicktime with alpha you can change it into a HQ file by right clicking on the clip in the bin window, Select convert, and then pick a HQ file. This will retain the Alpha but once again if using it in 3DPIP and you want to use 3D Space for movement you will want to turn off light and shadows.

The reason being is that the light and shadow is applied before the Alpha is removed so it is placed on the entire plane of the clip.

This is known and is being looked at but for the moment turning off light and drop shadow works :)


Mike

[Johnc]

Have you tried titlemotion pro, should do all what you want to do if i understand you correctly...

Yes, I think it could if I had some time to learn it. I've had a quick look but there's too little time for me to get up to speed with it for my current project.

[robbin]

Have you tried titlemotion pro, should do all what you want to do if i understand you correctly...

[Johnc]

I started with Edius in version 3 => 3d PiP with chromakey was not possible - 2d PiP with chromakey or luminancekey is possible in 3 and 4.

In stead of exporting to a clip, you better use a seperate sequence in version 4 => more flexibility to adjust / correct.

If you really need 3d PiP with chromakey => build a sequence with 3d PiP and use an "illegal" color as background e.g. black 0, 0, 0 => use this sequence in another sequence and apply the chromakey or luminancekey here to key away the "illegal" color. Works fine and doesn't affect your recorded clip which should only have "legal" colors.

Must have been 2.5 where I could do this then. I didn't use 3 much as I had some hardware issues so i rolled back to 2.5 for most of the time and waited for my new PC to arrive before going to 4.

That sounds like an interesting trick and I'll give it a go. Must admit I haven't had time to explore the sequences feature yet but I'll take a look once I've got this rush job out the way.

[Johnc]

okay, the other option is to use 2D PIP, it then allows to throw a chroma keyer on top as well

True, just limits me to size and position only with none of the 'nice bits' in 3D PIP.

[Bart]

I started with Edius in version 3 => 3d PiP with chromakey was not possible - 2d PiP with chromakey or luminancekey is possible in 3 and 4.

In stead of exporting to a clip, you better use a seperate sequence in version 4 => more flexibility to adjust / correct.

If you really need 3d PiP with chromakey => build a sequence with 3d PiP and use an "illegal" color as background e.g. black 0, 0, 0 => use this sequence in another sequence and apply the chromakey or luminancekey here to key away the "illegal" color. Works fine and doesn't affect your recorded clip which should only have "legal" colors.

[Johnc]

I'll describe what I'm trying to do today and you can see the problem I'm having.

Often I find using the 3DPIP effect in conjunction with other filters (like motion blur) useful for animated titles. It's quick as I don't have to render or go out into another application.

So what I do is take a graphic on a black or blue background and animate it using 3DPIP to scale, spin, pan or whatever. Usually I'll export this to a new file so I've got a clip i can then use in conjunction with the titler or other background clips.

So I've got my animated title on V2 with a new background clip on V1 and I want to key the animated title over the background, which is no problem, unless I now want to take the last frame or last few seconds of the animated sequence and use it to create an additional scaled move using 3DPIP with the key still applied. Can't see how to do that with Edius 4.

I could go back to the original sequence and re-animate that, export it and key that over my background, but there are many times I might need to change where the title ends up on the screen after I've finished editing the background sequence so i liked the way I could do it all very quickly with the 3DPIP effect & chromakey in combination.

[antonsvideo]

okay, the other option is to use 2D PIP, it then allows to throw a chroma keyer on top as well

[antonsvideo]

will the motion clip be in a fixed position? if so, you can move it where you want it with the layout tool, then apply your chroma key

there is also another way, I can't tell you until my PC3 export finishes

[robbin]

Read this about the new edius 4.5 version:

Alpha Support for the Canopus HQ codec
The Canopus HQ codec has been enhanced once again, now supporting alpha channel information within the video data. This means that you can avoid using storage-consuming formats such as uncompressed HD or still image sequences when compositing and layering video.

Will just have to wait until it gets out i guess...

[Johnc]

How would I do that if I wanted to use a clip rather than a graphic? I tried saving a clip with an alpha channel but when I brought it back in the alpha was lost which seems to be borne out by other threads I'm read.

[robbin]

Just save the file in photoshops with alpha and then put the 3d PiP filter on it in edius. Have the picture with alpha on video track2 and the background on video track1.

[Johnc]

OK, I'm obviously missing something fundamental here!

I was used to using 3D PIP to position and scale a graphic I'd created in Photoshop (for example) and then keying out the background using chromakey in 3D PIP.

What I'm doing is dropping a clip into 1 VA then dropping amother clip or graphic into 2 VA above it.
I apply 3DPIP to the clip or graphic in 2 VA, but how do I then apply chromakey to that clip or graphic?

Can you explain how you did the butterfly example with Edius 4 as that will probably answer my question and then I'll realise I've been stupid...

[STORMDAVE]

Shadows and lighting should be disabled in 3d PinP if your source footage has an alpha channel.

[pjsssss]

Depending on what your resolution is, you may have some black on the siddes or top/ottom of your graphic. Use Crop in 3DPIP to get rid of it.