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  • #31
    The major factor is what the eye can see, it takes a good eye to discern more than 800TVL at normal viewing distances, most HDV/HD formats are at this or exceed this, the average person in proper lighting usually can't tell the difference, the older you get the less you can discern, same with hearing when I was younger I had ears like a bat, I could clearly hear the horiz freq in most TVs, now I'm lucky if I can hear my wife.
    GA-EP45C-DSR3,Core2Q3ghz,8gig1066,260GTX,2x 20"AOC,22"Vizio1080pTV, Edius5/HDspark,PC3,Imaginate, CS5ProdStudio/IntensityPro,Win7_64
    HPdv7t 17"notebook,8gig,2 IntHD,9600GT512M,17"extmon, Edius4.61,CS4Prodstudio.Win7_64,MX02Mini
    DAW,HPdv9000,x2Turion,4Gig,2IntHD,Audition3,Cubase 4,XPpro,Alessis F/Wmixer,M-Audio F/Wmixer,BCF2000, BehringerMixers, Fender sound sys
    Numerous Ext eSATA drives & Raids shared between systems

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    • #32
      now I'm lucky if I can hear my wife.
      You are lucky.
      peterC
      ---------------------
      Edius 3 v3.62 beta / DVRexRT cards
      (Please don't throw stones, it works!)
      Edius 9 v3

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Blast1 View Post
        now I'm lucky if I can hear my wife.
        Haha

        But on a serious note, post production people have the obligation to make sure that everything looks top notch, this is why we get paid. Now if we're talking about events (weddings, etc) that's another issue, there isn't much we should look into, even HDV is fine for Weddings.

        But if you are doing broadcast work, music videos (higher end ones), commercials, etc, you have the job of making sure that everything looks professional, including the image. We all have a bit of videophile in all of us, so we should use that to our advantage.

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        • #34
          And the other factor is, no matter what level you work at, what is the delivery medium?

          This will affect majorly what you are doing if you want to go to the N'th degree.

          eg you can colour grade quite differently when the same job is going to TV verses the web for instance.

          Very much horses for courses.
          peterC
          ---------------------
          Edius 3 v3.62 beta / DVRexRT cards
          (Please don't throw stones, it works!)
          Edius 9 v3

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          • #35
            Rando - the responses from Tingsern and StormDave allude to the real answer, which is that it depends on the equipment, both recording and viewing. I have the HVX-200, and have done many tests to decide whether to use the 720p or 1080i modes. There is a very subtle increase in resolution at 1080i compared to 720p, but I too have chosen to do everything in 720p because it seems to yield better frame-to-frame viewing, which I use in sports and occasionally in wedding recordings. Especially when going to DVD, I would stongly advise the use of 720p.

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            • #36
              To sum up in very technical terms. There close enough for wedding work:) Thanks I see no reason for me to pursue 1080i cameras until these are ready to be retired.
              Randy

              Asus sabertooth MB Z97 16 gigs of ram SSD system and edit drives Nvidia GTX-660 video card

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              • #37
                Thanks everyone!
                Randy

                Asus sabertooth MB Z97 16 gigs of ram SSD system and edit drives Nvidia GTX-660 video card

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                • #38
                  Hi everyone
                  I have been reading this thread with some interest and I have a couple of questions
                  With 720 or 1080 Progressive how much jitter on movement do you get.
                  All my cameras have Fsp (Field sliced Progressive) and the resulting video all look as though the frame rate is around 12.5 frames per second but when the cursor is moved on the timeline frame by frame it is 25fps? and any movement even people walking is jittery and this I find unacceptable for my style of filming
                  Do full Progressive cameras display this or is it only those with Fsp?
                  My reason for asking this is I have some super 8 video (Film) that runs at 18fps and it does not jitter?
                  Sorry to open another can of worms but those who use progressive are convinced it is better and vise versa, perhaps it is a case of horses for courses?
                  Regards Barry
                  Win 10HP, EDIUS WG9.4, HD Spark, Boris RED 5, VMW6, Authorworks 6, Bluff Titler, VisTitler 2.8, NEAT 3/4, Mercalli 2/4, Vitascene, Izotope RX6 Plugin, NewBlue, Trend Micro AV
                  GB GA-X58A-UD3R MB, i7 990[email protected], 12G 1600mhz Mem, Samsung EVO-250G SSD, 3x2T RAID, GTX 970W OC, 2x24 inch LG Monitors
                  Canon XH-A1/ Canon HF-G30, GoPro Hero3 Black, Edit @1920 50p HQ preset

                  https://vimeo.com/user2157719/videos
                  Laptop ASUS G752VT-GC060T Win 10HP, Edius WG8.53 Samsung M2 SSD 256G+1Tb HD,

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                  • #39
                    True progressive cameras don't have those issues, they capture the entire frame at once, and if you process it correctly, it will display that way too.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Bluetongue View Post
                      With 720 or 1080 Progressive how much jitter on movement do you get.
                      The amount of jitter is related to the framerate you choose to shoot the 720 or 1080p footage with.

                      If you choose 60 frames a second, it will be butter smooth.

                      24 frames a second will show more frame movement, especially on pans.
                      Asus Prime X299-A - Intel i9 7900x all cores @4.3GHz 2 cores @4.5GHz - 32GB RAM - NVidia GTX1070 - Edius 9 WG - BM Intensity 4k - Boris RED - Vitascene 2 - Windows 10

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                      • #41
                        I shot exclusively on 720p on HVX202. I found the camera delivers a very smooth video that is perfectly acceptable to my clients. No difference could be seen at 1080i (or p) for HVX202. If you use a much higher end camera - yes - there will be a difference - but, since I am talking of only HVX202, 720p is more than adequate.

                        As a matter of interest for all HVX200/HVX202 owners ... 1080i is NOT what the camera captures ... it is really 1080p. And then it takes 2 1080p fields and chops half of that - giving you 1080i. Hence 720p is a better bet for HVX202. Not 1080i.

                        As for shutter speeds, the minimum shutter I would use is 1/25 second (PAL). At extremely low lighting, that is what I set the camera to - especially inside monasteries (using natural lighting and nothing else). It produces an image that is very good (after running it through NEAT VIDEO noise reduction), especially, at maximum GAIN of +12dB.

                        If there is enough light, I set the shutter to 1/60 minimum (or even 1/250) - then all the motion captured will be perfect - no jitters.
                        TingSern
                        --------------------------------------
                        Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

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                        • #42
                          Thanks everybody there is obviously a big difference between a FULL Progressive camera and one that has Fsp Quasi Progressive.
                          Next time! when ever that is
                          Regards Barry
                          Win 10HP, EDIUS WG9.4, HD Spark, Boris RED 5, VMW6, Authorworks 6, Bluff Titler, VisTitler 2.8, NEAT 3/4, Mercalli 2/4, Vitascene, Izotope RX6 Plugin, NewBlue, Trend Micro AV
                          GB GA-X58A-UD3R MB, i7 [email protected], 12G 1600mhz Mem, Samsung EVO-250G SSD, 3x2T RAID, GTX 970W OC, 2x24 inch LG Monitors
                          Canon XH-A1/ Canon HF-G30, GoPro Hero3 Black, Edit @1920 50p HQ preset

                          https://vimeo.com/user2157719/videos
                          Laptop ASUS G752VT-GC060T Win 10HP, Edius WG8.53 Samsung M2 SSD 256G+1Tb HD,

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Bluetongue View Post
                            Thanks everybody there is obviously a big difference between a FULL Progressive camera and one that has Fsp Quasi Progressive.
                            Next time! when ever that is
                            Regards Barry
                            Buying any sort of gear right now is a real tech nightmare. These are very rapidly changing and expensive times at any level.

                            A myriad of formats, codecs, etc going in all directions.

                            It is horses for courses, but some sound basics are the right start to assess your needs. Hard if you are not too techy and still, if you are.
                            peterC
                            ---------------------
                            Edius 3 v3.62 beta / DVRexRT cards
                            (Please don't throw stones, it works!)
                            Edius 9 v3

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                            • #44
                              Interlace will be dead in two years.......it is a CRT necessary evil!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by AJ101 View Post
                                Interlace will be dead in two years.......
                                On the production side maybe, delivery surely not in several Asian countries.

                                Here where I live, the CRT TV is still king, and will be for quite a while, but that's more of an price issue as volume of sales are low for LCD & Plasma TV and are almost all i units.

                                Therefore the i will rule the p for a while more............

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