Disappointing scrubbing of MP4's with new desktop build, also QuickSync Questions ...

[OneQuickSix]

Hi. I put together a new system* recently and was excited to finally install and use Edius X (and 9 for that matter) after using Edius 7 on my old system for a quite some time. And while overall pretty happy with the new system and Edius versions, I am disappointed Edius's handling of MP4's (AVC/H.264) when scrubbing the timeline. Is it just perhaps the nature of MP4's and is unavoidable? (Other than rendering all to HQX of course.)

Basically, it handles no better than Edius 7 on my antiquated system honestly. While playback itself is just fine, if I scrub an MP4 on the timeline or in the playback window, it is very erratic/jumpy. It is less noticeable on a longer clip that is zoomed out, although I believe this is simply because you are scanning by WAY more frames per movement than zoomed-in and/or on a shorter clip. When zoomed in on a clip I can see it is going ~15-20 frames between updating the image onscreen. Again, maybe this is just because of the way AVC/H.264 is encoded. Is it this way for everyone else?

I have tried multiple settings and formats (e.g. resolutions, frame-rates, encodes, etc.) ... it does not seem to matter. I did notice that the Intel GPU (QuickSync I assume) Video Decoder is being utilized when scrubbing the timeline, and not the discreet card. Probably would not make a difference, UNLESS it is a driver issue or the like with the Intel GPU? I think QS ENCODE is working properly, but probably do a separate post on that question.

On a slightly separate note, I also notice if I full-screen the timeline playback (to the same monitor), the video will occasionally judder and then subsequently so will the playback window after closing out full-screen mode. I believe it resets if I load another clip, or reload the project, etc. Any idea why this might be happening as well?

Thanks!

* System Specs:
CPU: Intel Core i9-13900k (5.8Ghz) (E-cores DISABLED)
Mboard: MSI MPG Z690 Carbon
Memory: 128GB G.Skill Trident Z5 DDR5 (5600) SDRAM
GPU: Nvidia GTX 3070ti (8GB)
Drives: 3x Dedicated Gen 4 NVMe drives (1. OS/Programs, 2. Pagefile/Scratch Disk, and 3. Video Work Drive) + multiple SSD Project Drives, etc.

[David Clarke]

You could try turning off the Quick Sync playback support. This does not work properly for 11th, 12th and 13th gen systems. For some people the system crashes when this is enabled.

[noafilm]

You could try turning off the Quick Sync playback support. This does not work properly for 11th, 12th and 13th gen systems. For some people the system crashes when this is enabled.

Grassvalley states that following features where added in versions 10.31:

• Full support for 12^th Gen Intel CPUs with massive performance gain
• H.265 10bit 4:2:2 hardware decoding with Intel QuickSync on 12^th Gen Intel CPUs
• Intel QuickSync Optimization for 11^th and 12^th Gen Intel CPUs

I guess that whoever has issues with 11 and 12th gen cpu's must be caused by wrong system set up? I don't see any mention of 13th gen cpu's so not sure if those are already fully supported.

[Jerry]

Issues have been present since 10.31. Full support doesn't always mean it works fully.
Many users have reported issues with 12th gen. This includes compatibility and quick sync issues.

[David Clarke]

After 10.31 I have had less issues with 12th Gen chips (prior to this EDIUS generally crashed immediately) but there are still some problems. The 13th gen are the same. Some people do not have issues at all, but I have dmade several systems with 12th and 13th gen systems and if QS decode is left on there will be issues somewhere. This has been reported to GV last year and we wait to hear. Jan/feb is traditionally a time when not much happens because of new year so I don't expect anything immediately.

For the OP it is worth a try to see if performance improves.

[Bassman]

Is poor h.264 scrubbing just the nature of the GOP structure beast? Will it sort of always be this way? I have not used other NLEs in a long time so I do not know if h.264 scrubbing is poor or great in other software.

[David Clarke]

The OP was saying his new system was no better than his EDIUS 7 system. It may well be that it just doesn't get better and that is "the nature of the beast". However, it is worth turning off the QS pl;ayback support and seeing what happens.

[noafilm]

On my system (amd5950x) files from a panasonic camera (4K 25p 4:2:0 100mbps) the scrubbing is very smooth and that is h264.

[noafilm]

Here is a screenrecording of how a 4K 25p 4:2:0 100mbps h264 file from a sony a7III scrubs on a 4K Edius timeline, it's a file straight from the card, it's not as smooth like hqxavi ofcourse but I consider this very smooth for general editing.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/kd6a87kimlep930/scrubtest.mp4/file

[OneQuickSix]

Thanks so much to everyone for all the replies. I am still at a loss, but I will try to cover most of what everyone said with my reply. I have been doing some testing, and not really getting anywhere. First, I'll start by saying it appears to be an MP4 (HEVC/AVC) issue, as (not surprisingly) HQX and files scrub flawlessly. (Playback is another issue I'll cover in a moment.) I'll try with other formats when I get a chance, but strongly suspect it is something to do with MP4s specifically -- although Noafilm's supplied screen-cap puts to bed my idea that "it is just the nature of MP4's."

Speaking of Noafilm, thank you very much for providing that ... glad you zoomed in to 1 frame for me at the end for the "real" test. :) Would it possible for you to send me the clip that you were demonstrating please? (Or any small portion thereof.) My next theory is that it is something to do with the encode quality (bit-rate, methodology) of the clips I have been testing with perhaps. Since you can scrub frame-by-frame, it would be very telling to see if I could do the same.

I did try disabling the QS playback as suggested (I assume you mean Settings>System Settings>Importer/Exporter/AVCHD (and HEVC)/ "Use Hardware decoder" unchecked, correct? I also tried unchecking the accelerated seek ... all to no avail. Otherwise, no Edius-specific issues ... very stable, responsive, effects, filters, etc. very good.

One further note/issue ... I am also, unfortunately, noticing occasional hiccups or judder -- most notably on horizontal camera moves. I thought it was just in Edius, and thought maybe it was just with MP4's, but I see it also with the same file converted to HQX, both in the playback monitor and on the full-screen playback monitor. I then tried it in a media player, and while (sometimes??) appearing smoother, it STILL had the judder. So, I don't know if it is in the camera or what ... I remember seeing this type of thing on horizontal moves with a completely different camera and believe, IIRC, that this is common issue with digital equipment, but it's strange how it isn't ALL the time. Can anyone confirm or deny this tidbit?

If anyone wouldn't mind sharing a piece of footage that has a horizontal move (aka trucking shot) they know does not exhibit any judder, I would love to test it out! Thanks!

[OneQuickSix]

EUREKA! HERE is an interesting discovery (at least to me) !

I noticed this is only happening when I try scrubbing with my mouse. If I use the the arrow keys (either held down OR single presses) it scrubs completely fine, as does using the J-K-L keys at multiple speeds. I have not hooked my Shuttle Pro V2 up to the new system yet, but it will be interesting to see if it works fine as well.

Does this provide any clue into what is happening? Why would it have such an issue with the mouse only? Weird.

[antonsvideo]

I did try disabling the QS playback as suggested (I assume you mean Settings>System Settings>Importer/Exporter/AVCHD (and HEVC)/ "Use Hardware decoder" unchecked, correct?

yes, that is correct, did you restart EDIUS after making the change?

also, make sure power options are on maximum performance and make sure fast startup is disabled in power options

then restart PC and empty appdata/local/Temp daily prior to starting EDIUS

[antonsvideo]

also, some intel graphics drivers require a monitor to be connected to the onboard graphics before QS really kicks in

[OneQuickSix]

also, some intel graphics drivers require a monitor to be connected to the onboard graphics before QS really kicks in

Thanks for that and the above, Anton. (See my new "Eureka" post just above your reply, it only seems to effect mouse scrubbing.) But just in case ... Max performance is set, but I don't even have the fast start option ... have never seen it actually. (I believe because I have hibernate disabled ... never use it.) I will give the restart and emptying of the temp folder a try.

I tried with and without a monitor hooked up to the Intel GPU ... didn't seem to make a difference in GPU Decode usage -- it hovers around 15 - 25%, less if dealing with 2k or 1080p of course.

[antonsvideo]

to disable fast startup, click choose what the power button does

then click the link of hidden items

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