Edius SP with 64bit PCI = overkill; alternatives?

[megabit]

Hi, I am seeking advice on the following. Having the Sony PMW-EX1, I need the XDCAM EX support that Edius Broadcast offers (I used the TBYB downloaded version, and loved it). But I also need some HW acceleration for editing (I have a 50" HDTV hung above my PC monitor for 2-monitor editing). My questions are:

- the Edius SP package comes first to my mind, but: 1) it's expensive 2) the cards need 64 bit PCI slots; I have he Asus P5W DH Deluxe mobo - does it have 64 or just 32bit PCI slots? Is 64bit PCI the same as PCI-X?

- if I only have 32bit PCI, ans so upgrading my mobo would be necessary to install Edius SP - is there a cheaper/simpler, single card solution to accelerate Edius Broadcast? I mean, I don't need capture functionality as my acquisition with the EX1 is file based; also, I do NOT do SD at all!

Any advice wil be appreciated.

[STORMDAVE]

You should be fine with the NX Express (2 PCIe cards)...The only thing the SP has on top of the NX is standard def component in, Professional VTR control, BNC in/out, and balanced XLR connections.

[megabit]

Thanks, STORMDAVE, but two PCIe cards would also require replacing my mobo (the slots on the Asus are very close to each other, and even though I only am using 2 currently, of the remaining 2 only one is accessible).

Doesn't Canopus offer a single PCIe card for HD accelerated output only?

[Zorro]

But I also need some HW acceleration for editing (I have a 50" HDTV hung above my PC monitor for 2-monitor editing). My questions are:

Neither the NX nor the SP will accelerate anything when editing in HD. They provide 1080i output. To accelerate HD editing please buy the fastest CPU you can afford and use fast harddisks in a Raid 0 setup.

[megabit]

Zorro, what you're saying comes as a surprize to me - while of course the CPU, RAM and HDDs are important, I thought Edius HD display can be accelerated! One of the reasons I'm considering switching from Vegas to Edius is that Vegas doesn't use any HW acceleration...

Please explain!

[Zorro]

Both the NX and SP have the CanopusDV codec in hardware like the DVStorm had years ago. Back then you had an acceleration effect when using the DVStorm. Todays CPU's are that fast that you will not see any difference. Speaking of HD: no hardware acceleration at all.

[megabit]

Both the NX and SP have the CanopusDV codec in hardware like the DVStorm had years ago. Back then you had an acceleration effect when using the DVStorm. Todays CPU's are that fast that you will not see any difference. Speaking of HD: no hardware acceleration at all.

If so, then - assuming my CPU is not bad at all - the most cost-effective solution seems to be a good general-purpose graphics card; I now have a simple ATI X1600XT - do you think it's worth it to replace it with the newest generation "HD" type of ATI card (like the HD 3850, HD 3870)?

[cuervo]

Piotr..

On this forums recommendation, I upgraded my videocard to a PNY Quadro FX1500 when I moved to Edius. The card seems to have smoothed my entire system out. I came from an older nVidia Geforce 7800GT. I'm really happy with the quadro. Most of the time, I get realtime playback of my imported EX1 files with a core2 dual extreme cpu on an ASUS mobo. I love it.

[megabit]

Thanks Bill - I'll certainly consider this one, as well.

PS. Nice to meet you here:)

[Claire]

Hi Piotr, nice to see you on here.. I have the same MBO (Asus P5W DH Deluxe). Mine only has the Core 2 Duo 6700 (2.66Gz) but I can play 3 streams of HDV (PIPs) from my Edius timeline at a full 25fps without dropping a single frame. Even with a colour correction filter on one of the layers I can do this and adjust the white balance or highlight levels in real time while it's playing.

What more could one anyone want!

However, to do this with raw transport stream would I suspect not be possible, capture from my V1E's tape to the Canopus HQ codec makes this possible, gives TOTALLY FLUID editing, hmm, I think you would not be able to do this as you don't have tape anymore. Maybe you would need to convert your raw files in Edius bin to the Canopus codec which might be a big pain.

Regardless, I suggest you simply must get the package with the hardware cards, I am using tthe NX, they work no problem in our Asus MBO's, if you saw the perfect results you get on your 50" HDTV as you edit from Edius you would be thrilled, like you I shoot a lot of 25P and the preview to my HDTV is just perfect, especially when you pause everywhere and they are all beautiful images! Oh and the audio is also in perfect sync while editing.

I don't think that you will get the same quality from a graphics card with HDV output, for starters they are all 60Hz or higher, not the 50Hz you need to see your preview smooth and accurately (motion).

[megabit]

BTW: is the Quadro FX1500 HDCP-compatible? It's not important for Edius editing, but required fro BD playback on the Full HDTV...

Also, the FX1700 is cheaper even though it has 512MB (vs 256 on thr FX1500); is any of them definitely better fro Edius use?

[megabit]

Hi Claire, so nice to meet you here, as well!

You got me interested saying that the Edius SP cards do work with the Asus P5W DH motherboard; on the product page at Canopus site, there is this diclaimer that made me uneasy:

"* The EDIUS SP baseboard can also be used in a 32-bit PCI slot for editing in SD resolution, however HD hardware acceleration and HD component output will be disabled. "

Regarding the regular graphics card use, you're absolutely right about the refresh rate being 60 Hz when you just connect the HDTV via the secondary DVI output. This is why I'm looking for a better solution; currently I can hook my 50" plasma into the HDTV component output which can be set in the Catalyst software to PAL (50Hz), but the overal picture quality via this simple card's Component output suffers a lot compared to DVI (with the latter not providing 50Hz compatibility)...

I'd be very grateful if you explain how can the Edius SP cards work on a mobo with 32bit PCI slots, in spite of the disclaimer...

Edit: Oops, I read your message too fast - you're talking about the NX, of course!

[megabit]

When I gave it a second thought, the 60 Hz being default refresh frequency should not be a problem, either - at least on the ATI cards... In Catalyst, I can set the HDTV to work with 100Hz refresh - I guess this also changes the card output mode; otherwise how would it work?

I just watched some of my stuff, recorded in 720/50p; absolutely and ultimately fluid motion! I guess it would not be possible if the 50fps were fed through a card working in 60Hz to the HDTV, wotking in 100Hz progressive mode (this is what it says it's doing).

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Claire]

I assume this was using Vegas? I worked with Vegas 7 some time ago so know it can run out a full screen preview to your chosen monitor including colour space conversion. If your video card's component out is driving your 50" PAL HDTV smoothly that's good.

As regards Edius I had better inform you that the software only product has no full screen preview, at least not yet so the most you can do without the NX card and HD expansion would be to set Edius to show only one monitor (like Vegas) and drag this to your HDTV making it as large as possible. You will not get rid of the top menus and bottom time controls etc but on your 50" it might not be a big deal.

Something else.. I would still myself be a bit wary of the refresh rate, not sure how your HDTV can possibly work with a 100Hz signal, strange? Makes me think there is some trickery going on somewhere.. my own card is an Nvidia 7600 silent (512MB) which when I connect it to my HDTV's component input works ok with the limitations on "no completely full screen" in Edius but even though I can choose PAL in it's HDTV driver I am suspecting it is merely a trick since when I watch a slow pan I have of my house and roof, unlike the perfectly smooth result I see from the NX card the brick wall will jerk seperately from the tiled roof, just for split seconds but enough to know the video card is not driving the HDTV the same perfect way the NX card does.

In fact there is a flywheel effect from the NX card such that scrubbing the timeline is so fluid the HDTV picture can easily overshoot where you stop pressing the arrow key, heh.. guess it has some really smooth stuff going on in it.

So I think you need to consider all this to know what is best.

[megabit]

Claire, using DirectDraw overlay, you can watch either the recorder or player Edius window full screen on the secondary monitor - just like with Vegas. So, unless you're talking NX cards (which I have no experience with at all), the limitation you're talking about is not existing. Of course, in both Vegas and Edius you can use the alternative method of dragging your preview window(s) with controls etc to the secondary monitor, in which case you're right - it won't be a true full screen HD.

As far as refresh rate is concerned: ATI Catalyst software uses the EDID information from any monitor/TV connected; since my Panasonic plazma is a PAL model, capable of both 50 and 100 Hz, I'm simply choosing 100 Hz and everything is OK. With the reservation I mentioned earlier - I can't be sure that the card itself is still working at 60Hz in between my 25p HD material, and 100Hz monitor.