Edius 9.54 preserve Ancillary Data issue

[BernH]

I have an MXF file generated with Media Composer that has both 608 and 708 closed captions embedded. In previous versions of Edius 9 I could re-package this file and preserve the CC ancillary data. In 9.54 it seems that this is not working anymore, as the exported file has no CC data. I do have the preserve ancillary data option enabled in my timeline settings.

Can anyone confirm if this is the case? Many of you that deal with NTSC and CC may already have something to test with, I can provide a sample file if required.

[createmedia]

CC It isn't something I normally get involved with, but interested to test it, I have 9.54 and 8.53 on other systems (keeps the RXE-1 + MIP hardware running) can try on there too. Are you exporting back to MXF?

Mike

[BernH]

CC It isn't something I normally get involved with, but interested to test it, I have 9.54 and 8.53 on other systems (keeps the RXE-1 + MIP hardware running) can try on there too. Are you exporting back to MXF?

Mike

Hi Mike,

Yes, I am exporting to MXF MPEG2 50Mbps OP1a for broadcast use with playout servers. (a.k.a. XDCAMHD50) This is just using the standard exporter in Edius with no special settings or deviations from the default. The exporter is under MXF, not the XDCAM category.

The source files have been made with Media Composer and have embedded 608 and 708 captions, shown in media info as 608 and 708 text tracks. I have been doing this process for quite a few years going back to Edius 7, through 8 and through most of 9. The latest batch I have to work on are using Edius 9.54 and it doesn't seem too be preserving the CC tracks any more.

I'll PM you a link to a 10 second sample. I don't want to post this in the wild as it is an ongoing project. The link will expire in a couple of days.

[createmedia]

Confirmed

Edius 8,53 does not strip of the CC Text files but both Edius 9.54 and Edius X do strip off the CC Text files

I have informed support.

Mike

[BernH]

Putting this out to Pat and Steve. Is it possible to get this issue fixed? I can revert to an earlier version of Edius for what I have to do, but since mike tested and noted that the ancillary cc data is also stripped in Edius x I suspect this might be something that the software developers should look at fixing.

I should also say thanks to Mike for testing this for me to confirm it isn’t just a problem with my install.

[GrassValley_SL]

Can you please om me a link with a short sample?

[GrassValley_PS]

We'll see if we can reproduce this. I have used CC many times at stations with no problems but it has been a while. Did you do any further editing of the clip in EDIUS?

[createmedia]

The clip was left untouched and exported in all tests. Edius 8.53 was fine.

Mike

[BernH]

Can you please om me a link with a short sample?

stand by Steve. I’ll send you a link to the 10 sec test piece I sent Mike

Just to clarify though, it’s not that Edius can’t embed from an scc or mcc, it’s that it isn’t passing the already existing ancillary data as it should, and used to in earlier Edius builds.

[createmedia]

Hello BernH

This has been a bit of an interesting education for me as I have never had to produce CC caption embedded video files.

So I took your original file and I found and downloaded CC Extractor v0.88 (free) which can extract the captions and produce several output formats including text and SRT files and there were the subtitles in your file separated out.

I then found Subtitle Edit 3.5.18 (free) into which I can load the exported video from Edius 9 (no CC text) and add the SRT file made by CC Extractor and it will play the video and display the captions as subtitles.

It sadly won't export anything except a subtitle file although in many different formats, it won't embed them in the video, but using these two apps it does however make a simple way to test the file externally to Edius.

Internally of course the SRT file can be loaded into a titler app in Edius to check they display correctly.

I have not tried exporting from Edius with CC data included yet so I will try that next.

I hope the coding team in Japan sort out your preserve ancillary data issue soon with an update to 9 and X.

Regards

Mike, (never too old to learn something new).

[Jerry]

Since I don't have your sample, I just tested with an MCC_HDD2997_Multistream sample I had. Ancillary data is carried through.
Are you using the settings I've listed. It could also be your file.

[GrassValley_PS]

Bern can you send me the file? I would like some more info on this. How are your CC settings set? As I said, we have used this many times at tv stations with no problem.

[GrassValley_PS]

Also, how are you viewing the CC to know it is not passed on?

[BernH]

Jerry, Mike, Pat and Steve.

let me try to explain again. This is not a problem with the closed captioning workflow, although I do have some issues there, but that’s another topic. It is a problem with the preservation of existing ancillary data in the newer versions of Edius.

I am not trying to embed closed captions in Edius. I am not trying to read the captions in Edius. I am taking an mxf op1a file that has 608 and 708 captions in it and using it as a source to make another mxf op1a file with a different audio layout and slate, simply because the recipient wantS the slate laid out in a way that includes in/out/duration of every segment and the Edius markers make this easy to do.

I have been doing this process through Edius 7, Edius 8 and Edius 9 up until a few Edius 9 updates ago.

The closed caption tracks in the source file can be identified in media info as 608 and 708 text tracks. Once passed through the newer Edius versions the captions are stripped off and those 608 and 708 tracks are not shown by media info, but older versions of Edius keep the tracks in the output file. These CC tracks are part of the ancillary data in an HD mxf file and in older Edius versions, it was preserved as long as the timeline setting had the preserve ancillary data option.

I currently have Edius 7 (last versions released) on another machine for this purpose. It is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. Edius 8 (last version released) also does this perfectly. Edius 9 also did this perfectly until I updated it in the late spring/early summer.

I am not a newbie at this process. I can make it happen or not happen with an Edius version change.

To repeat this process, simply take the source file I have given you the link to, place it on a timeline and export another mxf op1a. You don’t have to try to edit anything. Just ensue the preserve ancillary data option is enabled.

compare both the source and the new file in media info. You will see that the new one is missing the 608 and 708 tracks

[BernH]

Since I don't have your sample, I just tested with an MCC_HDD2997_Multistream sample I had. Ancillary data is carried through.
Are you using the settings I've listed. It could also be your file.

Jerry I seem to be unable to PM you the link to see what I mean.

as I said though, this has nothing to do with using an scc or mcc to embed captions, it is about passing them through and keeping them embedded.