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  • 10-bit HDR Workflow?

    For the new year, I've decided to start doing projects in a 10-bit 4 to 8K 10-bit HDR workflow. Rather than buying a ridiculously expensive HDR monitor with limited capabilities for the money, I've decided to go with probably a LG CX OLED TV- about 55". Of course, these are HDMI 2.1, so to get all the 10-bit HDR benefits the TV has to offer, I'm already having to upgrade my 1 year old Nvidia 2080ti, which is 2.0, to a 3090, which is 2.1. My son is thrilled, since his gaming computer will end up with the 2080ti. I will of course still run this in a two monitor configuration.

    My question is: Should this work well for grading 10-bit HDR with Edius X Workgroup running in a clean feed between the graphic card to the TV, via an HDMI 2.1 cable? I realize that the TV might not be 100% spot on, unless and until calibrated. I'm hoping/assuming that Edius will be able to properly flag the TV to the 10-bit 4:2:2 content without having to go through a hardware card. Would that assumption be correct?
    Yosemite Channel - Barry Chall Films:
    https://m.youtube.com/user/Tarnway0412

  • #2
    I don't think it will work because the EDIUS preview is not accurate via a PC graphics card

    I would look for a dedicated video output card
    Anton Strauss
    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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    • #3
      Thanks Anton,
      I'm really hoping to avoid going down the dedicated PC graphic card rabbit hole. Also, for the kind of projects I work on, absolute critical color accuracy isn't essential. I do various forms of landscape: astro, ocean, river, etc. So, I don't mind if the colors are not reference perfect. I go for what looks good on the devices I'm viewing it on. Before final publication, I always view the content on multiple devices ranging from smartphones, tablets, 10' home theater projector screen, etc. If it looks good over that range of devices, then I'm fine with it. I also use Resolve, and it would appear from their specs, that their Decklink 4K cards won't support Edius, and I assume vice versa. So, since I regularly use both these programs, you can see my hesitation to go the card route. With Resolve, it would seem that there is some sort of a flag setting with the cards which must be activated for HDR support. I'm hoping Edius doesn't have this same limitation. Again, absolute color accuracy isn't essential for my workflow. Plus, I FAR prefer working with the Edius interface and all final timeline output is on Edius.
      Any thoughts?
      Yosemite Channel - Barry Chall Films:
      https://m.youtube.com/user/Tarnway0412

      Comment


      • #4
        I am using the BM Mini Monitor 4k and it works perfect with any EDIUS from 7 to X
        DeckLink are high performance capture cards for Mac, Windows and Linux with support for 12G-SDI and 8K.
        Anton Strauss
        Antons Video Productions - Sydney

        EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

        Comment


        • #5
          The mini monitor 4k will also process HDR to external monitor with auto switching.
          It does up to 30p in 4k, but can be dropped to 1080 60p and still handle HDR.

          Doing 8K HDR will be tricky.
          Jerry
          Six Gill DV
          www.sgdvtutorials.com
          If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

          Vistitle YouTube Channel
          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

          Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
          http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


          Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
          Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jerry View Post
            The mini monitor 4k will also process HDR to external monitor with auto switching.
            It does up to 30p in 4k, but can be dropped to 1080 60p and still handle HDR.

            Doing 8K HDR will be tricky.
            Thanks Jerry.
            It would appear that with 4K it might only do 4:2:0, and not 4:2:2. I looked at the 4K 12g Extreme, and it might have the same limitation, although it's unclear whether with that one, they're just referring to it dropping down to 4:2:0 at 4K 60.
            The other thing which it said for the 12g was that coming from HDMI, HDR would only do static HDR. I'm not really sure what they mean by this.
            Yosemite Channel - Barry Chall Films:
            https://m.youtube.com/user/Tarnway0412

            Comment


            • #7
              The 12G Extreme or Kona 5 cards are the way to go.

              Here is what is shown on B&H for the Mini Monitor 4K.

              NTSC
              HDMI (8/10/12-Bit 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0)
              DCI 4K: 23.98/24/25 fps
              UHD 4K: 23.98/24/25/29.97/30 fps
              1080p: 23.98/24/25/29.97/30/50/59.94/60 fps
              1080PsF: 23.98/24/25/29.97/30 fps
              1080i: 50/59.94/60 fps
              720p: 50/59.94/60 fps


              Last edited by Jerry; 01-03-2021, 01:57 AM.
              Jerry
              Six Gill DV
              www.sgdvtutorials.com
              If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

              Vistitle YouTube Channel
              https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

              Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
              http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


              Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
              Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jerry View Post
                The 12G Extreme or Kona 5 cards are the way to go.

                Here is what is shown on B&H for the Mini Monitor 4K.

                NTSC
                HDMI (8/10/12-Bit 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0)
                DCI 4K: 23.98/24/25 fps
                UHD 4K: 23.98/24/25/29.97/30 fps
                1080p: 23.98/24/25/29.97/30/50/59.94/60 fps
                1080PsF: 23.98/24/25/29.97/30 fps
                1080i: 50/59.94/60 fps
                720p: 50/59.94/60 fps

                12G Extreme, I'm definitely leaning in that direction. Just a few things still need a bit of clarification. In the 12g specs, it says the following:

                HDR Support
                HDR metadata packing, HLG and PQ transfer characteristics. (HDMI supports static HDR metadata only)

                What exactly does static metadata only mean?

                Edit Update:
                I asked that same question on the Blackmagic Resolve forum. Here is the answer that was given:

                This applies only to Dolby Vision and HDR10+. The rest of HDR formats are static only.
                In addition, in order to implement dynamic metadata from Dolby you need L2 license from them, and their interface, which is about US$15,000. I believe AJA high end interface does Dynamic metadata too.
                Last edited by Barry C; 01-03-2021, 04:52 AM.
                Yosemite Channel - Barry Chall Films:
                https://m.youtube.com/user/Tarnway0412

                Comment


                • #9
                  HLG doesn't require metadata. Is HLG not acceptable for your purposes?
                  Jerry
                  Six Gill DV
                  www.sgdvtutorials.com
                  If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                  Vistitle YouTube Channel
                  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                  Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                  http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                  Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                  Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jerry View Post
                    HLG doesn't require metadata. Is HLG not acceptable for your purposes?
                    HLG will probably be fine. Actually, the camera I've just upgraded to which should be arriving on Tuesday, is a Sony A7SIII. So, HLG might be the flavor of the day for that one. For time lapse work with the new system, I'm working in 8K, starting with raw 14-bit images, so not sure how that HDR workflow might proceed.
                    However, again, I'm just in the learning process, but wouldn't it also be necessary to encode in other options as well as HLG, so the content could be viewed on devices which don't recognize HLG? Or, is this a not a factor?
                    Yosemite Channel - Barry Chall Films:
                    https://m.youtube.com/user/Tarnway0412

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      8K sets will have HLG and 4K sets from 2017 on should have HLG.
                      if you need the other flavors, you should be using Resolve. Personally, I would use Resolve for HDR work.
                      Jerry
                      Six Gill DV
                      www.sgdvtutorials.com
                      If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                      Vistitle YouTube Channel
                      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                      Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                      http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                      Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                      Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

                      Comment

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