Using a Sequence as a sub clip in another Sequence Edius X

[createmedia]

Hello

Double clicking on the sub clip (Sequence 3) in Sequence 4 to correct a mistake does not place the cursor at the same frame point it was at in Sequence 4 in Sequence 3 and it should do.

Still no audio waveforms are generated.

Mike

[David Clarke]

I did not do this in EDIUS 9 either. I am sure these have been requested already.

[Liverpool TV]

Hello

Double clicking on the sub clip (Sequence 3) in Sequence 4 to correct a mistake does not place the cursor at the same frame point it was at in Sequence 4 in Sequence 3 and it should do.

Still no audio waveforms are generated.

Mike

Unfortunately these are more examples of legacy issues that users have been requesting fixes for for a very long time. I doubt very much that you’ll find anything in X that’s been fixed from 9 or any previous version of Edius.

[createmedia]

So it seems just giving a nudge that it still needs doing

Mike

[Liverpool TV]

So it seems just giving a nudge that it still needs doing

Mike

Maybe. Although there have been many nudges over many years and many legacy issues and/or user requests have never been addressed.

[kpot]

Maybe. Although there have been many nudges over many years and many legacy issues and/or user requests have never been addressed.

Unfortunately I have to agree.
kurt

[BernH]

Hello

Double clicking on the sub clip (Sequence 3) in Sequence 4 to correct a mistake does not place the cursor at the same frame point it was at in Sequence 4 in Sequence 3 and it should do.

Still no audio waveforms are generated.

Mike

I know the nested sequence waveform thing has been requested many times, but personally I can understand that this might be an extremely difficult thing to undertake, and feel like I have to make a couple of points to consider in this regard, which might not be taken into account by people that request it.

If you consider that a nested sequence is not a clip, but instead it is a whole other sequence that could have any number of audio track and any number of audio filters, Edius would have to essentially do a virtual mixdown/output on that sequence and then calculate a waveform based on the virtual output, but every time the nested sequence is modified, the whole process would have to be repeated. This is a far different process than analyzing an already created single audio file that can't change and generating a waveform cache file that represents it. If the nested sequence is a short clip with single audio track or maybe even a couple of tracks, it's not a big stretch for this virtual process, but if it was a longer or more complicated multi-layer sequence, the virtual waveform creation would have to delete the existing waveform file and could take quite a while to generate a new one each time there was a change, potentially using a fair chunk of system resources that would not be available to use for other things.

If I really need to see a waveform for a nested sequence for the purposes of timing something to a waveform, I simply export that nested section as a wav file and place it on the timeline either alongside the nest or replace the nest audio with the wav file if the audio in the nest will not change. Problem solved in a few seconds.

[kpot]

I know the nested sequence waveform thing has been requested many times, but personally I can understand that this might be an extremely difficult thing to undertake, and feel like I have to make a couple of points to consider in this regard, which might not be taken into account by people that request it.

If you consider that a nested sequence is not a clip, but instead it is a whole other sequence that could have any number of audio track and any number of audio filters, Edius would have to essentially do a virtual mixdown/output on that sequence and then calculate a waveform based on the virtual output, but every time the nested sequence is modified, the whole process would have to be repeated. This is a far different process than analyzing an already created single audio file that can't change and generating a waveform cache file that represents it. If the nested sequence is a short clip with single audio track or maybe even a couple of tracks, it's not a big stretch for this virtual process, but if it was a longer or more complicated multi-layer sequence, the virtual waveform creation would have to delete the existing waveform file and could take quite a while to generate a new one each time there was a change, potentially using a fair chunk of system resources that would not be available to use for other things.

If I really need to see a waveform for a nested sequence for the purposes of timing something to a waveform, I simply export that nested section as a wav file and place it on the timeline either alongside the nest or replace the nest audio with the wav file if the audio in the nest will not change. Problem solved in a few seconds.

Hi:
Everything you write is completely correct and I also use the workaround (marked blue). And if there are several hierarchical sequence levels, creating a waveform takes even longer (a recursive situation).

But there are two additional questions:
- Other NLEs can display nested sequences with Waveform (so Edius should be able to do that as well).
- But it would also be possible to have an icon in the timeline, a switch (used only when necessary) that creates the waveform (in the background) - then you know that this could take longer (and in EDIUS-X you could do other things in the meanwhile).

Regards kurt

[BernH]

Hi:
Everything you write is completely correct and I also use the workaround (marked blue). And if there are several hierarchical sequence levels, creating a waveform takes even longer (a recursive situation).

But there are two additional questions:
- Other NLEs can display nested sequences with Waveform (so Edius should be able to do that as well).
- But it would also be possible to have an icon in the timeline, a switch (used only when necessary) that creates the waveform (in the background) - then you know that this could take longer (and in EDIUS-X you could do other things in the meanwhile).

Regards kurt

Yes, I agree Kurt. It is not impossible to do, but looking at forums for other NLE's also shows that they also have problems with nested waveforms disappearing or not calculating correctly because the process is a "virtual" one instead of a single file analysis.

There have been many people whining about this feature over the last year, and while I think it could be nice if it worked well, I also would not place it high on the priority list when a simple few second work around will also let you see the waveforms. Just because one NLE has a feature, it doesn't mean that they all have to have the same feature. If that was the case there would only be one NLE on the market. We use different tools for their different strengths, and unfortunately audio is not a strength of Edius, Media Composer, HitFilm, etc., but Edius also has strengths that place it better than other NLE's in areas.

[kpot]

Yes, I agree Kurt. It is not impossible to do, but looking at forums for other NLE's also shows that they also have problems with nested waveforms disappearing or not calculating correctly because the process is a "virtual" one instead of a single file analysis.

There have been many people whining about this feature over the last year, and while I think it could be nice if it worked well, I also would not place it high on the priority list when a simple few second work around will also let you see the waveforms. Just because one NLE has a feature, it doesn't mean that they all have to have the same feature. If that was the case there would only be one NLE on the market. We use different tools for their different strengths, and unfortunately audio is not a strength of Edius, Media Composer, HitFilm, etc., but Edius also has strengths that place it better than other NLE's in areas.

Hi BernH:

I agree once more.
With one exception ("... the process is a "virtual" one ...): "Virtual" is an euphemistic description for what needs to be programmed (I would have used recursive programming in my earlier days). So I can easily find out why this function has not been implemented yet or why it does not get a high priority. All clear!
Have a nice weekend
kurt

[BernH]

Hi BernH:

I agree once more.
With one exception ("... the process is a "virtual" one ...): "Virtual" is an euphemistic description for what needs to be programmed (I would have used recursive programming in my earlier days). So I can easily find out why this function has not been implemented yet or why it does not get a high priority. All clear!
Have a nice weekend
kurt

Hi Kurt,

All is clear. But a little reply to your noted exception. By "virtual", I simply mean that the analysis would have to be done across multiple tracks dynamically. It is not simply a waveform build from a pre-existing file. Perhaps "virtual" may have been the wrong word, but it is the closest I can think of to describe the concept without getting into programming terminology like your recursive programming reference.

I am not a programmer, although I have dabbled in it in the old BASIC days, and I have also learned some proprietary languages for control system programming when I used to do A/V boardroom installations, so I do indeed understand that the concept of recursive/dynamic analysis is possible, but it also allows me to see that it is not something that is as simple as the normal waveform generation, especially if you want to also incorporate the effects of audio plugins in the analysis. Simple waveform addition/subtraction is relatively easy, but throw audio plugins into the mix and then the task gets a lot more difficult to implement reliably, and perhaps even more difficult if the plugins are 3rd party ones. Personally, since waveforms represent the source used on a timeline, I think the plugin analysis is a must since they will dictate the source in this case.

Once again, I am not disagreeing with you, just trying to lay out the points that may make this request a little more difficult than some people think it may be. Perhaps with the Edius X re-design it may be possible in the future, since there does seem to be some improvements with plugin latency compensation and maybe therefor better audio processing in general. Time will tell I guess.

[kpot]

Hi Kurt,

All is clear. But a little reply to your noted exception. By "virtual", I simply mean that the analysis would have to be done across multiple tracks dynamically ...

Hi BernH:

It is really not easy to characterize this very complex matter with a single word. Everything you say is absolutely correct and I understood it the way you meant it - it is completely in line with my considerations. In short: We both talk about the same problem and what have to be taken into consideration!
With "recursion" I just wanted to point out only one aspect that illuminates the complexity.
// I am glad that I don't have to solve this problem (analysis, programming etc.). It probably represents one of the most complex problems in the development of an NLE.
By "all clear" I meant that there are no differences between the two of us in the knowledge of the complexity of this matter.
Gruß kurt
PS: My native language is German. So I hope that the translation-SW DeepL did a good work (as far as I speak English, this seems to be the case).

[BernH]

PS: My native language is German. So I hope that the translation-SW DeepL did a good work (as far as I speak English, this seems to be the case).

Hi Kurt,

Your English translation is quite good. Noting wrong there. Unfortunately my German skills are non existent.

I have a colleague that is German and I know from speaking with him that many Germans have very good English skills because it is taught in the schools over there. I also deal with a German Producer, Beta Film, as the international distributor of the current TV series that I am working on called Hudson & Rex, which is an English re-make of the old German TV show Commissar Rex. I am actually responsible for all the packaging and delivery of the show to the North American broadcasters as well as Beta Film. I served the same role for another TV series called Republic of Doyle that was also a fairly big hit in Germany from what I understand. We actually saw a fairly large increase in German tourists coming here to St. John's Newfoundland when Republic of Doyle started airing over there, and everyone I every ran into had exceptional English skills.

[antonsvideo]

I grew up in Austria and it was compulsory to learn English in High School

and I am glad it was, because it made it easy for me when I moved to Sydney

[BernH]

I grew up in Austria and it was compulsory to learn English in High School

and I am glad it was, because it made it easy for me when I moved to Sydney

I knew you spoke German, but I didn't know you actually grew up in Europe. There's another piece toward my daily learning quota.